A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

How to get maximum height on a winch launch?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 12th 06, 08:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 245
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

I'm interested in learning how to get the maximum possible height on a
winch launch, without compromising safety in any way.

This question has two parts really - how should the pilot fly the
launch (pretty much how should he operate the elevator during the
launch), how fast should the glider fly, and how should the winch
driver feed the power in? For the sake of argument, let's assume the
glider is a K13.

For reference, I fly from an airfield with a 3,300' long cable, and the
maximum height I achieve repeatedly is 1,700'. Headwind typically goes
from around 10kts at the ground to something like (I estimate) 20kts at
height.

  #2  
Old December 12th 06, 10:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

1) Listen to your instructor.

2) Do nothing different, you are already acheiving beyond average
heights, changing your current habits is maybe looking for a problem.
If I could get 1700 feet on 3300 feet of cable I would change
absolutely nothing. Look no further.

Bob


Dan G wrote:
I'm interested in learning how to get the maximum possible height on a
winch launch, without compromising safety in any way.

This question has two parts really - how should the pilot fly the
launch (pretty much how should he operate the elevator during the
launch), how fast should the glider fly, and how should the winch
driver feed the power in? For the sake of argument, let's assume the
glider is a K13.

For reference, I fly from an airfield with a 3,300' long cable, and the
maximum height I achieve repeatedly is 1,700'. Headwind typically goes
from around 10kts at the ground to something like (I estimate) 20kts at
height.


  #3  
Old December 12th 06, 10:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

If you join the Yahoo group "winchdesign" and look in the files section,
there are a series of truely excellent papers in the folder "Winch Dynamics
and Performance" by George Moore. (soargsm)

Essentially what George determened is that the major sensitivities a
1.Field length
2. Headwind
3. Cable tension as a percentage of glider flying weight.
4. Weight & drag of the cable

There is very little extra height to be gained by agressive technique beyond
just hitting your target airspeed and holding it there with smooth control
inputs. This gives an angle of attack just slightly greater than that for
best L/D. If you want help with this, put some AOA strings on the canopy
sides and calibrate them for L/D max and Vmin sink. Of course, it goes
without saying that you should never put yourself in danger by rotating into
the climb so quickly that a recovery from a rope break is impossible.
Smooth and accurate flying are what you want.

So, if you want to get higher, get a longer field with more wind, replace
steel with high strength Dyneema and get a winch that can accurately hold
tension at 80 - 90% of the weak link.

Bill Daniels

"Dan G" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm interested in learning how to get the maximum possible height on a
winch launch, without compromising safety in any way.

This question has two parts really - how should the pilot fly the
launch (pretty much how should he operate the elevator during the
launch), how fast should the glider fly, and how should the winch
driver feed the power in? For the sake of argument, let's assume the
glider is a K13.

For reference, I fly from an airfield with a 3,300' long cable, and the
maximum height I achieve repeatedly is 1,700'. Headwind typically goes
from around 10kts at the ground to something like (I estimate) 20kts at
height.



  #4  
Old December 13th 06, 09:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 245
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

Thanks Bill, that document is very interesting.

There is one thing in particular I am unsure about however - how much
up elevator I should be putting in. With the K8, I fly the launch at
50-55kts with the stick fully back for perhaps the last 30% of the
launch after smoothly transitioning from full forwards on the ground
run through neutral once in the full climb, until I feel the glider
being pulled level, when I relax the aft pressure in anticipation of
putting the nose down to reuce cable tension prior to releasing. (This
later movement often results in quite an increase in speed, which I
convert to height after releasing. Is this an indication I'm releasing
back pressure too early, or the winch driver not backing off the
throttle enough?)

With a K21, which winch drivers here (which includes me) are told to
give "full power all the way up" from our Oldsmobile V8. Climb speed is
at lesst 65kts and I'm reluctant to pull back too hard. Why? A K21
launches on a black weak link (1,000kg). I imagine full up elevator in
a K21 would produce enough lift to break that at well below max winch
speed, 81kts.

Is there a way to calculate how much lifting force full up elevator
should produce for any given airspeed? Or should I not be putting full
up in? If not, just how far should I bring the stick back, and when?


Bill Daniels wrote:

If you join the Yahoo group "winchdesign" and look in the files section,
there are a series of truely excellent papers in the folder "Winch Dynamics
and Performance" by George Moore. (soargsm)

Essentially what George determened is that the major sensitivities a
1.Field length
2. Headwind
3. Cable tension as a percentage of glider flying weight.
4. Weight & drag of the cable

There is very little extra height to be gained by agressive technique beyond
just hitting your target airspeed and holding it there with smooth control
inputs. This gives an angle of attack just slightly greater than that for
best L/D. If you want help with this, put some AOA strings on the canopy
sides and calibrate them for L/D max and Vmin sink. Of course, it goes
without saying that you should never put yourself in danger by rotating into
the climb so quickly that a recovery from a rope break is impossible.
Smooth and accurate flying are what you want.

So, if you want to get higher, get a longer field with more wind, replace
steel with high strength Dyneema and get a winch that can accurately hold
tension at 80 - 90% of the weak link.

Bill Daniels

"Dan G" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm interested in learning how to get the maximum possible height on a
winch launch, without compromising safety in any way.

This question has two parts really - how should the pilot fly the
launch (pretty much how should he operate the elevator during the
launch), how fast should the glider fly, and how should the winch
driver feed the power in? For the sake of argument, let's assume the
glider is a K13.

For reference, I fly from an airfield with a 3,300' long cable, and the
maximum height I achieve repeatedly is 1,700'. Headwind typically goes
from around 10kts at the ground to something like (I estimate) 20kts at
height.


  #5  
Old December 13th 06, 04:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

Dan, your questions concern me. Full up elevator is dangerous on a winch
launch. All modern trainers like ASK 21's or Grob 103's will fly an almost
perfect launch without the pilot touching the controls if trim and winch
power are right. Demonstrating hands off launches is a good start to winch
training. (The take home lession is the launch will be nearly perfect if the
pilot doesn't screw it up.)

You should be using just enough elevator to keep the airspeed where you want
it. (Typically 55 - 60 knots, depending on the glider) The basic principle
is that the winch driver controlls power and the glider pilot controlls
airspeed. If it requires large amounts of up elevator to control airspeed,
signal for less power. As you point out, some gliders with high CG
locations like a K8 will need nearly full down elevator from the start to
control the natural pitch up. It shouldn't need much up elevator at all
later.

The winch driver should be slowly backing off the power as the glider
approaches the top of the launch. Take a good look at George Moores charts
that show cable tension - tension is a direct function of winch power.

In any event, there's very little additional height that can be achieved
late in the launch. Pulling hard near the top just loads up the glider and
may break the weak link. (You are using the correct Tost weak links,
right?)

Suggestion: Get a copy of a good glider flight simulator like Condor and
practice lauches on a computer. There's a lot to learn with a good sim. I
use Condor as an "animated white board" when I teach winch ground school.

Bill Daniels

"Dan G" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks Bill, that document is very interesting.

There is one thing in particular I am unsure about however - how much
up elevator I should be putting in. With the K8, I fly the launch at
50-55kts with the stick fully back for perhaps the last 30% of the
launch after smoothly transitioning from full forwards on the ground
run through neutral once in the full climb, until I feel the glider
being pulled level, when I relax the aft pressure in anticipation of
putting the nose down to reuce cable tension prior to releasing. (This
later movement often results in quite an increase in speed, which I
convert to height after releasing. Is this an indication I'm releasing
back pressure too early, or the winch driver not backing off the
throttle enough?)

With a K21, which winch drivers here (which includes me) are told to
give "full power all the way up" from our Oldsmobile V8. Climb speed is
at lesst 65kts and I'm reluctant to pull back too hard. Why? A K21
launches on a black weak link (1,000kg). I imagine full up elevator in
a K21 would produce enough lift to break that at well below max winch
speed, 81kts.

Is there a way to calculate how much lifting force full up elevator
should produce for any given airspeed? Or should I not be putting full
up in? If not, just how far should I bring the stick back, and when?


Bill Daniels wrote:

If you join the Yahoo group "winchdesign" and look in the files section,
there are a series of truely excellent papers in the folder "Winch
Dynamics
and Performance" by George Moore. (soargsm)

Essentially what George determened is that the major sensitivities a
1.Field length
2. Headwind
3. Cable tension as a percentage of glider flying weight.
4. Weight & drag of the cable

There is very little extra height to be gained by agressive technique
beyond
just hitting your target airspeed and holding it there with smooth
control
inputs. This gives an angle of attack just slightly greater than that
for
best L/D. If you want help with this, put some AOA strings on the canopy
sides and calibrate them for L/D max and Vmin sink. Of course, it goes
without saying that you should never put yourself in danger by rotating
into
the climb so quickly that a recovery from a rope break is impossible.
Smooth and accurate flying are what you want.

So, if you want to get higher, get a longer field with more wind, replace
steel with high strength Dyneema and get a winch that can accurately hold
tension at 80 - 90% of the weak link.

Bill Daniels

"Dan G" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm interested in learning how to get the maximum possible height on a
winch launch, without compromising safety in any way.

This question has two parts really - how should the pilot fly the
launch (pretty much how should he operate the elevator during the
launch), how fast should the glider fly, and how should the winch
driver feed the power in? For the sake of argument, let's assume the
glider is a K13.

For reference, I fly from an airfield with a 3,300' long cable, and the
maximum height I achieve repeatedly is 1,700'. Headwind typically goes
from around 10kts at the ground to something like (I estimate) 20kts at
height.




  #6  
Old December 13th 06, 06:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 245
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

Bill Daniels wrote:

Dan, your questions concern me. Full up elevator is dangerous on a winch
launch. All modern trainers like ASK 21's or Grob 103's will fly an almost
perfect launch without the pilot touching the controls if trim and winch
power are right.

You should be using just enough elevator to keep the airspeed where you want
it. (Typically 55 - 60 knots, depending on the glider) The basic principle
is that the winch driver controlls power and the glider pilot controlls
airspeed. If it requires large amounts of up elevator to control airspeed,
signal for less power.

As you point out, some gliders with high CG
locations like a K8 will need nearly full down elevator from the start to
control the natural pitch up. It shouldn't need much up elevator at all
later.

The winch driver should be slowly backing off the power as the glider
approaches the top of the launch. Take a good look at George Moores charts
that show cable tension - tension is a direct function of winch power.

In any event, there's very little additional height that can be achieved
late in the launch. Pulling hard near the top just loads up the glider and
may break the weak link. (You are using the correct Tost weak links,
right?)


We set the trim well forwards to give approach speed in the event of a
launch failure (I am not going to stop doing that, but hypothetically
where would you put the trim for best launch height?), and for K21s
winch drivers are briefed to give full throttle the whole way up (winch
is c.300bhp).

I've also heard several pilots be admonished by instructors recently
for "not pulling back" after somewhat low launches. Surely pulling back
increases the lift the aircraft is producing, and therefore gives more
height? If the airspeed is well below placard max winch speed, I would
have thought it would not result in enough force to break the link.

BTW we do, without fail, use the correct weak links (and not doubled-up
or anything stupid either). That said, we do break weak links with some
regularity.


Suggestion: Get a copy of a good glider flight simulator like Condor and
practice lauches on a computer. There's a lot to learn with a good sim. I
use Condor as an "animated white board" when I teach winch ground school.


Heh, I have Condor but find it much harder to fly than "real life",
probably as my comp is rather weedy so it's a bit jerky. Thanks for the
suggestion though!


Dan


Bill Daniels

"Dan G" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks Bill, that document is very interesting.

There is one thing in particular I am unsure about however - how much
up elevator I should be putting in. With the K8, I fly the launch at
50-55kts with the stick fully back for perhaps the last 30% of the
launch after smoothly transitioning from full forwards on the ground
run through neutral once in the full climb, until I feel the glider
being pulled level, when I relax the aft pressure in anticipation of
putting the nose down to reuce cable tension prior to releasing. (This
later movement often results in quite an increase in speed, which I
convert to height after releasing. Is this an indication I'm releasing
back pressure too early, or the winch driver not backing off the
throttle enough?)

With a K21, which winch drivers here (which includes me) are told to
give "full power all the way up" from our Oldsmobile V8. Climb speed is
at lesst 65kts and I'm reluctant to pull back too hard. Why? A K21
launches on a black weak link (1,000kg). I imagine full up elevator in
a K21 would produce enough lift to break that at well below max winch
speed, 81kts.

Is there a way to calculate how much lifting force full up elevator
should produce for any given airspeed? Or should I not be putting full
up in? If not, just how far should I bring the stick back, and when?


Bill Daniels wrote:

If you join the Yahoo group "winchdesign" and look in the files section,
there are a series of truely excellent papers in the folder "Winch
Dynamics
and Performance" by George Moore. (soargsm)

Essentially what George determened is that the major sensitivities a
1.Field length
2. Headwind
3. Cable tension as a percentage of glider flying weight.
4. Weight & drag of the cable

There is very little extra height to be gained by agressive technique
beyond
just hitting your target airspeed and holding it there with smooth
control
inputs. This gives an angle of attack just slightly greater than that
for
best L/D. If you want help with this, put some AOA strings on the canopy
sides and calibrate them for L/D max and Vmin sink. Of course, it goes
without saying that you should never put yourself in danger by rotating
into
the climb so quickly that a recovery from a rope break is impossible.
Smooth and accurate flying are what you want.

So, if you want to get higher, get a longer field with more wind, replace
steel with high strength Dyneema and get a winch that can accurately hold
tension at 80 - 90% of the weak link.

Bill Daniels

"Dan G" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm interested in learning how to get the maximum possible height on a
winch launch, without compromising safety in any way.

This question has two parts really - how should the pilot fly the
launch (pretty much how should he operate the elevator during the
launch), how fast should the glider fly, and how should the winch
driver feed the power in? For the sake of argument, let's assume the
glider is a K13.

For reference, I fly from an airfield with a 3,300' long cable, and the
maximum height I achieve repeatedly is 1,700'. Headwind typically goes
from around 10kts at the ground to something like (I estimate) 20kts at
height.



  #7  
Old December 13th 06, 07:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

Responses interspersed.

"Dan G" wrote in message
oups.com...

We set the trim well forwards to give approach speed in the event of a
launch failure (I am not going to stop doing that, but hypothetically
where would you put the trim for best launch height?), and for K21s
winch drivers are briefed to give full throttle the whole way up (winch
is c.300bhp).


Same as always. Set the trim for zero stick force. It has no effect
whatever on release height.


I've also heard several pilots be admonished by instructors recently
for "not pulling back" after somewhat low launches. Surely pulling back
increases the lift the aircraft is producing, and therefore gives more
height? If the airspeed is well below placard max winch speed, I would
have thought it would not result in enough force to break the link.


I sounds like your winch may reach redline RPM just as the glider rotates
into the climb. If the pilot doesn't rotate quickly enough, the winch
driver will have to throttle down to save the engine.

Pilots trained on aero tow will often resist pitching up into the climb and
need to be admonished that this is not an aero tow and they need to climb.
As they climb the engine RPM will diminish. I'm not saying pull hard, just
pitch up smoothly to control airspeed.

The very best height is achieved by flying the glider at just over the best
L/D angle of attack. Pulling up harder and flying at a greater AOA will
actually reduce height achieved. To repeat, fly the selected airspeed. You
may improve things slightly by using an AOA indicator. Strings work fine.


BTW we do, without fail, use the correct weak links (and not doubled-up
or anything stupid either). That said, we do break weak links with some
regularity.


Whew! Thanks for that.


Suggestion: Get a copy of a good glider flight simulator like Condor and
practice lauches on a computer. There's a lot to learn with a good sim.
I
use Condor as an "animated white board" when I teach winch ground school.


Heh, I have Condor but find it much harder to fly than "real life",
probably as my comp is rather weedy so it's a bit jerky. Thanks for the
suggestion though!

It is harder than real life - but it's good training.

Bill Daniels


  #8  
Old December 13th 06, 11:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Derek Copeland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

Hi Bill, Glad to see you are coming round to my way
of thinking, that the rotation into the full climb
should be gentle and controlled, and should not put
you in an unrecoverable position if the launch fails
for any reason.

The exact position to hold the stick during a winch
launch is very type dependent. Gliders with way back
c of g hooks, such as the K21, K8 and Pirat will require
the stick to be held neutral or even forward of neutral
during the full climb. Gliders with slightly further
forward hooks such as the K13 will need the stick held
fairly well back, although probably not on the back
stop. Gliders with single 'compromise' hooks such as
the Slingsby Skylark and the Bocian will need the stick
to be held on the back stop if they are to climb at
all steeply.

The best advice I can give to Dan G is to look at the
wingtips during the launch and find what stick position
will hold them at about 45 degrees to the horizon AND
give a safe speed. If you have a low powered winch
you may have to adopt a lesser angle.

Derek Copeland

At 15:18 13 December 2006, Bill Daniels wrote:
Dan, your questions concern me. Full up elevator is
dangerous on a winch
launch. All modern


At 15:18 13 December 2006, Bill Daniels wrote:
Dan, your questions concern me. Full up elevator is
dangerous on a winch
launch. All modern trainers like ASK 21's or Grob
103's will fly an almost
perfect launch without the pilot touching the controls
if trim and winch
power are right. Demonstrating hands off launches
is a good start to winch
training. (The take home lession is the launch will
be nearly perfect if the
pilot doesn't screw it up.)

You should be using just enough elevator to keep the
airspeed where you want
it. (Typically 55 - 60 knots, depending on the glider)
The basic principle
is that the winch driver controlls power and the glider
pilot controlls
airspeed. If it requires large amounts of up elevator
to control airspeed,
signal for less power. As you point out, some gliders
with high CG
locations like a K8 will need nearly full down elevator
from the start to
control the natural pitch up. It shouldn't need much
up elevator at all
later.

The winch driver should be slowly backing off the power
as the glider
approaches the top of the launch. Take a good look
at George Moores charts
that show cable tension - tension is a direct function
of winch power.

In any event, there's very little additional height
that can be achieved
late in the launch. Pulling hard near the top just
loads up the glider and
may break the weak link. (You are using the correct
Tost weak links,
right?)

Suggestion: Get a copy of a good glider flight simulator
like Condor and
practice lauches on a computer. There's a lot to learn
with a good sim. I
use Condor as an 'animated white board' when I teach
winch ground school.

Bill Daniels

'Dan G' wrote in message
roups.com...
Thanks Bill, that document is very interesting.

There is one thing in particular I am unsure about
however - how much
up elevator I should be putting in. With the K8, I
fly the launch at
50-55kts with the stick fully back for perhaps the
last 30% of the
launch after smoothly transitioning from full forwards
on the ground
run through neutral once in the full climb, until
I feel the glider
being pulled level, when I relax the aft pressure
in anticipation of
putting the nose down to reuce cable tension prior
to releasing. (This
later movement often results in quite an increase
in speed, which I
convert to height after releasing. Is this an indication
I'm releasing
back pressure too early, or the winch driver not backing
off the
throttle enough?)

With a K21, which winch drivers here (which includes
me) are told to
give 'full power all the way up' from our Oldsmobile
V8. Climb speed is
at lesst 65kts and I'm reluctant to pull back too
hard. Why? A K21
launches on a black weak link (1,000kg). I imagine
full up elevator in
a K21 would produce enough lift to break that at well
below max winch
speed, 81kts.

Is there a way to calculate how much lifting force
full up elevator
should produce for any given airspeed? Or should I
not be putting full
up in? If not, just how far should I bring the stick
back, and when?


Bill Daniels wrote:

If you join the Yahoo group 'winchdesign' and look
in the files section,
there are a series of truely excellent papers in the
folder 'Winch
Dynamics
and Performance' by George Moore. (soargsm)

Essentially what George determened is that the major
sensitivities a
1.Field length
2. Headwind
3. Cable tension as a percentage of glider flying
weight.
4. Weight & drag of the cable

There is very little extra height to be gained by
agressive technique
beyond
just hitting your target airspeed and holding it there
with smooth
control
inputs. This gives an angle of attack just slightly
greater than that
for
best L/D. If you want help with this, put some AOA
strings on the canopy
sides and calibrate them for L/D max and Vmin sink.
Of course, it goes
without saying that you should never put yourself
in danger by rotating
into
the climb so quickly that a recovery from a rope break
is impossible.
Smooth and accurate flying are what you want.

So, if you want to get higher, get a longer field
with more wind, replace
steel with high strength Dyneema and get a winch that
can accurately hold
tension at 80 - 90% of the weak link.

Bill Daniels

'Dan G' wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm interested in learning how to get the maximum
possible height on a
winch launch, without compromising safety in any
way.

This question has two parts really - how should the
pilot fly the
launch (pretty much how should he operate the elevator
during the
launch), how fast should the glider fly, and how
should the winch
driver feed the power in? For the sake of argument,
let's assume the
glider is a K13.

For reference, I fly from an airfield with a 3,300'
long cable, and the
maximum height I achieve repeatedly is 1,700'. Headwind
typically goes
from around 10kts at the ground to something like
(I estimate) 20kts at
height.








  #9  
Old December 14th 06, 02:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 276
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?

Dan G wrote:
We set the trim well forwards to give approach speed in the event of a
launch failure (I am not going to stop doing that, but hypothetically
where would you put the trim for best launch height?),

Agreed - set the trim to suit the day.

and for K21s
winch drivers are briefed to give full throttle the whole way up (winch
is c.300bhp).

That sounds excessive to me. The only glider that gets full power all
the way is an ASH-25.

We launch K.21s on a 240 hp diesel winch (Deutz air cooled V8) and never
reach full power in normal circumstances. If an ASK-21 or G.103 is being
launched the driver goes smoothly "through the stop" on "all out" and
smoothly back to the stop when he sees the glider rotate into full
climb. "Through the stop" means just that - not "on the end of throttle
travel". After that it depends on conditions. In calm that setting can
be kept most of the way up, but if there's a wind gradient the driver
will be backing off as the glider gets into progressively stronger wind.

The "stop" I mentioned is a spring loaded bar somewhere around (at a
guess) 75% power.

We use 3500 ft of cable and expect 1200 - 1500 ft from an ASK-21 flown
two-up in normal conditions - 6 to 12 kts headwind.

I'd endorse Bill's comment about hands-off trim. Our CFI regularly
demonstrates this in an ASK-21. He claps slowly from just after lift-off
to the top of the launch to show the student that he is flying hands off.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #10  
Old December 15th 06, 03:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 306
Default How to get maximum height on a winch launch?


Martin Gregorie wrote:
Dan G wrote:


and for K21s
winch drivers are briefed to give full throttle the whole way up (winch
is c.300bhp).

That sounds excessive to me. The only glider that gets full power all
the way is an ASH-25.


It shouldn't, since an ASH-25 is a brown weak link, not a black one.
Many clubs, pilots and winch drivers ignore this, but at their peril.
When I am driving I will refuse to launch an ASH-25 unless someone I
trust will confirm to me that it has the right link in place. 60:1 does
not bring immortality.

Ian

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winch Launch Extreme 5200 ft Walter Kronester Soaring 57 December 14th 06 05:55 AM
Winch operations Edward Winchester Soaring 7 April 13th 06 11:24 AM
UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder John Doe Piloting 145 March 31st 06 06:58 PM
LIppmann reports a 950 meter winch launch with their Dynatec winch line - anything higher? Bill Daniels Soaring 20 December 27th 04 01:33 AM
I need winch launch videos Bill Daniels Soaring 21 December 1st 04 07:41 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.