How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring ?

Common! We have 6x the population of the UK and 10x the wealth! Divide the U.S. into NE, SE, SC, SW, Great Lakes, and Mountian West, etc. That is 6 small regions of our highest population density. Take out the entire center of the country. These 6 regions are what the USA is to the vast majority of our pilots. Each of these regions are equal in population to the UK! Coast to coast distance is simply NOT AN EXCUSE for the USA's low or non existent (in the case of Jr soaring) participation.

We need to stop making excuses for our complete and utter failure at developing a vibrant and successful youth soaring culture in the USA. We need to accept this failure and change. We need to wake up and fix it. Complacency is not going to help us improve the situation.

Bottom line. Few care!

Cross country soaring and youth participation are the foundation of any healthy soaring community. We simply HAVE NO FOUNDATION anymore! XC is "the" goal to strive towards achieving in soaring. This focus is why the UK is thriving. Pattern glider flying is unsustainable and uninspiring. Our lack of focus is why we are failing. The U.S. has become a country of pattern glider flying.

I wonder what percentage of UK instructors are highly experienced XC pilots vs US instructors. My guess. 85% in the UK vs 15% in the USA. I wonder how many XC hours a UK instructor hour flys per year (on average) vs a U.S. Instructor? Shouldn't a glider instructor have to have a 100km cross country every 2 years at minimum to remain current as a glider instrucor? Shouldn't a student be encouraged to ask their glider instructor how many XC flights they have competed in the last 1,2,5 years and what their OLC URL is so they can see how experienced they are?

What a shame for potential U.S. Jr pilots. Maybe we should hire some of the UK Jr Development Team?

On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 10:19:16 PM UTC+3, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 08:33:02 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

My gliding club, which I was writing about above, is in New Zealand.

I know your current field - visited in 2003 and met you briefly - but was
in Wgton for about 7 years (VUW then work) back in the 60s & 70s, mostly
flying models on the Trentham rifle range for my aviation fix, so I'm
curious about where the club is likely to move to. Is the plot to stay W
of the ranges and just go a few km north, or would a move to the
Wairarapa make more sense?

Unfortunately, staying west of the ranges would require either developing a new airfield a minimum of 20 - 30 km further north (somewhere between extremely expensive and time consuming, and impossible, due mostly to planning procedures, objections from "neighbours" etc), or going to existing airfields at Fielding, Foxton or the like. Foxton is 60 km more from Wellington, and is too far from the ranges. Fielding is 110 km more from Wellington.

Joining the Upper Valley club at Kaitoke would be a possibility, but there is limited space and a lot of improvements would be needed. Definitely aerotow only.

Masterton would be a possibility. Very nice large WW2 airfield (as was Paraparaumu), and we use it for an away weekend most years (and sometimes contests). But it runs the same future risk as Paraparaumu, and is far too busy with warbirds, parachuting etc to be able to operate a winch.

The best option appears to be joining a small existing club at Greytown. They've been operating for several decades on a nice long strip (2 km of winch run on the main vector) on a dairy farm owned by the club president. He is now elderly and recently sold the farm to the local council who want it in future to spread treated waste water instead of discharging it into the river. The council is encouraging multiple recreational uses of the land, and are willing to give a very long term lease and other security of tenure provisions.

For anyone in the Hutt Valley it's the same travel time or less as Paraparaumu. For Wellington it's about 20 minutes more (60 min vs 40 min). From Porirua is the same travel time as from Wellington (but Paraparaumu was 15 min closer from Porirua). And of course it gets progressively worse for people living further up the west coast from Porirua.

This video gives a nice idea of the location (and the freedom to do what we want):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p7i85rvMG8

On Wed, 09 Sep 2015 02:35:04 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

Masterton would be a possibility. Very nice large WW2 airfield (as was
Paraparaumu), and we use it for an away weekend most years (and
sometimes contests). But it runs the same future risk as Paraparaumu,
and is far too busy with warbirds, parachuting etc to be able to operate
a winch.

Around 1970 we (Wellington MAC) used to fly free flight model comps on
Hood Aerodrome about once a year, but I understand its got quite busy
since, so not going there isn't a surprise.

The best option appears to be joining a small existing club at Greytown.

Is that the club formerly known as Jury Hill? I see the web site now
calls itself Gliding Wairarapa. Being addicted to winching, if I'd moved
back to NZ I'd have considered pitching up somewhere near it. I know the
general area from flying models on Rayner's Farm, which is about 6km east
of Carterton and 9km from where the video was shot (not hard to find on
Google Earth.

It does look good, and well placed for Tararua wave, too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p7i85rvMG8



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 2:48:33 PM UTC+3, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Is that the club formerly known as Jury Hill?

Yes. One of the small wrinkles in the paperwork is that the main runway is divided into two by a paper access road owned by the Jury family (or their successors?).

A European perspective he
1. We have the same problems. (Numbers, Retention, Youth, Over-regulation) Grass ain't greener over here.

2. Soaring has IMO a major image problem.
- Missunderstood (what we do, how we do it.)
- Missconceptions (Cost, Skills needed, Time Required)
- The Rewards are not apparent.

Due to this we attract/train the wrong people. There are people who want to become a pilot in the power plane sense. Yes, its a challenge on its own, but the major challenge while power flying is doing it right according to method X.

Basic glider training matches the above. But when it comes to fly on your own, its suddenly a different story:

Soaring requires to develop your own processes, your own instincts and there isn't a clear right / wrong. Its a different mind set.

We are more adventurers/explorers/pioneers than pilots in the classic sense..

We need to attract the people who cater to the above values, more than that of piloting an air plane.

At least here in Switzerland we have a major competitor: Paragliding. They have 30000+ Pilots, Glider pilots: 2200. And its exactly that mindset that is the difference. People go PGing because they think of adventure, close to nature etc. even though they are doing the same thing as we do, albeit on a different scale.

Other Frequent citied points:
* No dependency on infrastructure (take back pack and run off a mountain)
* No club dependency (volunteer work, politics, cost of association etc)

An EGU Paper suggested we do something similar as PADI did for the diving community.

I call B$ on the argument that people don't have enough time. I see how many hours people spend on social media, games and general assisted procrastination. In the end its all a deviation from their internal dissatisfaction with themselves. If they where offered a perspective, they would find it important enough to dedicate themselves to soaring.

For me Soaring has been a major character development driver. Its made me strive for goals previously thought unattainable, upped my self confidence, reliance and planning skills. Its also made me accustomed to "take the plunge/leap" often and willingly. Soaring fundamentally changes you.

I really think we can bank on that. It should be part of the sales-pitch at any Soaring presentation.

You see all these "Go pro" videos with millions of hits on youtube? That is people wanting to experience the same as the person shooting the video. But they don't even try because they think its unattainable to them.

Soaring need to break into new communities. I love for that the Soaring Grand Prix. Especially if its televised. I think we need a sports tv channel to adopt regular screening of this. It should be an easy sale. Its fresh, fast and its got major visual power.

Cheers,
- Folken

There are some very good points brought up here. However I think we are overlooking a basic change in youth behavior that has occurred nearly world-wide over the last ~20 years. That is the tendency of young people to A. avoid risky activities outside the relative safety of "experiences" such as amusement park rides and other programmed events, and B. a decreased tendency to initiate an activity such as building or repairing things. I am sure all of you have witnessed both these characteristics in today's youths. The reasons for this are many and may include "helicopter parenting", child coddling and easy availability of simulated electronic experiences.
Now add to that the reduced amount of income experienced by many youth as "good" jobs get harder to obtain. Soaring is expensive. Hang gliding and paragliding are far less expensive. Hence the huge difference in numbers (see Swiss post above) of the remaining youth who still have the "adventure" gene active within them.
In short, there is little we can do to attract youth into sailplane flying in any large numbers. As someone pointed out, that is probably just as well as there are not enough resources to handle such an influx anyway. The best we can manage is to introduce youth to it and hope they return later in life when they can afford it.

Here is yet another example of why people that have the urge to soar don't need to spend lots of money to experience great XC. The distances are not as far but the view is better.
https://vimeo.com/138445187

On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 8:24:35 PM UTC+2, Soartech wrote:
There are some very good points brought up here. However I think we are overlooking a basic change in youth behavior that has occurred nearly world-wide over the last ~20 years. That is the tendency of young people to A. avoid risky activities outside the relative safety of "experiences" such as amusement park rides and other programmed events, and

I agree that this is there. Although I wouldn't limit to youth. We live in a risk averse society to the point where people are no longer able to judge risk, because of infrequent exposure.

However there is a difference between precieved risk and actual risk. I know no PG pilot who hasn't been to the doctor or worse due to a landing related incident.

Insurances here think the same. You need a special insurance for PGing here, not the case for soaring.

B. a decreased tendency to initiate an activity such as building or repairing things.
There is hope there. Have a look at the large Maker movement currently grabbing the states and europe. Sure its in an organized fashion. But that may be a key argument there, providing a more structured approach to gliding.

I am sure all of you have witnessed both these characteristics in today's youths. The reasons for this are many and may include "helicopter parenting", child coddling and easy availability of simulated electronic experiences.
Now add to that the reduced amount of income experienced by many youth as "good" jobs get harder to obtain. Soaring is expensive. Hang gliding and paragliding are far less expensive. Hence the huge difference in numbers (see Swiss post above) of the remaining youth who still have the "adventure" gene active within them.
In short, there is little we can do to attract youth into sailplane flying in any large numbers. As someone pointed out, that is probably just as well as there are not enough resources to handle such an influx anyway. The best we can manage is to introduce youth to it and hope they return later in life when they can afford it.

At least the way I see it PGing is more expensive than gliding.

You need to buy your own equipment. The PGschool is commercial. The calculation I saw here was (Swiss prices so brace yourself):
3500.- For instruction
4500.- For the Wing and equipment. (low end)
Thats about 8200 USD.

In addition you need to travel to the mountains every time you want to go flying.
Basel - Rigi costs you 45 CHF there and back again.

In addtion you need to replace the wing every 5-7 years. If you are serious about safety.

Compare to that Gliding:
4500.- for instruction (non commercial)
1500.- Per year for about 80h of flying. (3.5h in 22 Flights + Club Charge)

This isn't to shoot against Paraglider pilots. Its just that costs cannot be the factor why there are 10x more PG pilots than Glider Pilots.

I heard that soaring was more expensive than powered flight in the US. If that is the case we need to identify the cost driving factors and eliminate or find ways to distribute them differently.

It takes a village to launch a sailplane, a pair of sneakers to launch a PG.. Private ownership to private ownership is no contest. PG gear advertised prices are much higher then experienced PG pilots pay. You can keep yourself in good gear for same or less then club dues(unfortunately PG students do get bled.) Price aside, I think it is more the autonomy of self launch. No one wants to say it but we all know there are a lot of cranky miserable people in sailplane villages. If you don't get on with your local sailplane club all the fun is gone. If you don't get on with your local PG club, as long as you are waivered up and meet local rating rules you don't have to deal with them much.

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 2:37:22 PM UTC+2, GB wrote:
It takes a village to launch a sailplane, a pair of sneakers to launch a PG. Private ownership to private ownership is no contest. PG gear advertised prices are much higher then experienced PG pilots pay. You can keep yourself in good gear for same or less then club dues(unfortunately PG students do get bled.) Price aside, I think it is more the autonomy of self launch.. No one wants to say it but we all know there are a lot of cranky miserable people in sailplane villages. If you don't get on with your local sailplane club all the fun is gone. If you don't get on with your local PG club, as long as you are waivered up and meet local rating rules you don't have to deal with them much.

I finally found that EGU Paper. Its the results of a 2012 workshop on how to retain, train and future development of gliding. I think it should be circulated a lot more widely.

http://www.egu-info.org/dwnl/EGU%20P...%2020122.p df

If you are short on time, read section 3 "Gliding is the Answer � But what is the Question?" Why Gliding? Steps towards creating a Brand.

As you correctly state the club dependency is a big problem for one particular potential demographic: the middle aged pilot.

Although he/she has income, he has little time to dedicate, but still wants to fly.

What the author suggests is to create a brand like PADI for scuba divers. Its a common acronym which stand for certification, equipment, services available from a PADI certified organisation. If you are certified for a certain PADI level, its clear what you can and cannot do. Its clear what equipment you can operate and what your level of experience is.

It basically would allow you to come to an airport and rent a glider. Without membership in a particular club. If you are self-launch certified and a glider with that capability is available, you can operate on your own.