Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Tom makes at least one good point. Fortunately, he was not able to find evidence that these overflights are illegal. I figured if CBP and ATC have no objection, I should be good to go. It's nice to put the FAA on that list as well.

There is a difference between illegal and ill advised. CBP would not be amused, they can certainly lay down huge fines, and who knows - maybe they can seize the glider. I prepare so hopefully a landout never happens, and if it does happen, I can make a better case that this was a serious emergency. I'd be in the claws of the CBP and the legal system, and that doesn't sound like much fun, but still better than being dead.

If you can't get back, land in Area 51.

wrote on 7/28/2019 9:07 AM:
Tom makes at least one good point. Fortunately, he was not able to find evidence that these overflights are illegal. I figured if CBP and ATC have no objection, I should be good to go. It's nice to put the FAA on that list as well.

There is a difference between illegal and ill advised. CBP would not be amused, they can certainly lay down huge fines, and who knows - maybe they can seize the glider. I prepare so hopefully a landout never happens, and if it does happen, I can make a better case that this was a serious emergency.. I'd be in the claws of the CBP and the legal system, and that doesn't sound like much fun, but still better than being dead.

To borrow Tom's phrase, soaring is a sport of skating on thin ice. We aren't flying around in a 182 going for a $100 hamburger! When I see the wave stretching south to the Grand Tetons, I have to limit my soaring risks to minimize the legal risks. The only responsible way to carry the adventure further south is to land, clear customs, and fly on.

In conclusion, (cu's will be popping soon) we have largely unexplored wave-generating terrain from south of the Grand Tetons to just south of the arctic circle. That's 1300 miles! Banff is close, Calgary is close - hook the glider up behind the minivan and bring the whole family for vacation.

Chester

How much of the US portion of the flight put you out of reach of a port of entry?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

A few Arizona pilots have flown gliders into Mexican airspace - twenty years ago, it was no big deal. It’s not advised since border controls have tightened since 9/11. If discovered and identified, you may get a reprimand or worse. I’ve crossed the southern border at least twice - the last one in a contest. Fortunately, only the scorer noticed- I got zero!

Mike

Hmmmm.....(joking here....just so we all know up front......).....CBP/ICE...vs. US military at Area 51.....yep.....Area 51 sounds worse.....neither sounds good.....even a US citizen landing at Area 51...

In general......I find some decent info here. Not an issue I have to deal with based on location.

For the rest of this discussion, no comment.....a "wee bit too much testosterone" for me want to deal with.....have fun....

I'm curious:Â* For a trans-border flight can you file a flight plan in
the air like we can in the US?Â* If so then there's no need to land and
clear customs (probably).Â* Is there such a thing in Canada as VFR Flight
Following whereby you're in contact with the FAA and handed off to the
next sector even without a flight plan?

On 7/28/2019 10:07 AM, wrote:
The only responsible way to carry the adventure further south is to land, clear customs, and fly on.

--
Dan, 5J

Yes and yes.

To borrow Tom's phrase, soaring is a sport of skating on thin ice. We aren't flying around in a 182 going for a $100 hamburger! When I see the wave stretching south to the Grand Tetons, I have to limit my soaring risks to minimize the legal risks. The only responsible way to carry the adventure further south is to land, clear customs, and fly on.


How much of the US portion of the flight put you out of reach of a port of entry?

Under good weather conditions, a flight like mine is always within glide slope of the border, and if you get low way south, you have Helena and Great Falls. Can't penetrate west to Helena? Run east to Great Falls. Landing at a port of entry is still some sort of violation - this needs to be pre-arranged with customs. What would Customs do if they didn't want you in the country? At the border, they can just tell you to turn your car around. Still, landing at a Port of Entry is vastly preferred to landing at an unsupervised site. My discussions with CBP in Great Falls give me a sense that this might be forgiven.

Sometimes I feel like telling some of the posters on this group to go to Hellena hand basket....

;^)

Boggs

wrote on 7/29/2019 7:32 AM:
To borrow Tom's phrase, soaring is a sport of skating on thin ice. We aren't flying around in a 182 going for a $100 hamburger! When I see the wave stretching south to the Grand Tetons, I have to limit my soaring risks to minimize the legal risks. The only responsible way to carry the adventure further south is to land, clear customs, and fly on.


How much of the US portion of the flight put you out of reach of a port of entry?

Under good weather conditions, a flight like mine is always within glide slope of the border, and if you get low way south, you have Helena and Great Falls. Can't penetrate west to Helena? Run east to Great Falls. Landing at a port of entry is still some sort of violation - this needs to be pre-arranged with customs. What would Customs do if they didn't want you in the country? At the border, they can just tell you to turn your car around. Still, landing at a Port of Entry is vastly preferred to landing at an unsupervised site. My discussions with CBP in Great Falls give me a sense that this might be forgiven.

Perhaps filing a flight plan with a landing at a port of entry would be give them
the opportunity to deny entry before the flight. I assume you could cancel the
landing during the flight as soon as you were confident you'd get back to Canada,
and request a change by radio to a different port of entry if landing became
inevitable. Making minor(?) changes to a flight plan might be more acceptable to
CBP than landing without prior permission.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

Perhaps filing a flight plan with a landing at a port of entry would be give them
the opportunity to deny entry before the flight. I assume you could cancel the
landing during the flight as soon as you were confident you'd get back to Canada,
and request a change by radio to a different port of entry if landing became
inevitable. Making minor(?) changes to a flight plan might be more acceptable to
CBP than landing without prior permission.

--

Many power pilots suggest exactly this. And it is legal, but you are going to seriously annoy Customs. They get a daily report with the incoming aviators, and they try to plan their day around it. This is not just my opinion, this feedback comes from the senior customs official in Great Falls. He would prefer to treat an emergency as an emergency, rather than see each overflight creating an operations exception. Hopefully he's not hoping to get a sweet deal on an Arcus at auction. :-)

My plan is to actually land and clear customs at least once. Now I'm in the system, I'm a familiar face. Hopefully if the worst comes to pass, they don't throw the book at me, just a minor paddling.

A lot of maybe's and wishful thinking going on here. If you have to land, it's a roll of the dice...

As an aside, there are airports right at the border. Del Bonita / Whetstone in particular would be perfect for clearing Customs on wave flights, but unfortunately it has been designed to kill glider pilots. Check out this picture -
http://www.aviationacres.com/FacilityPhotos/H28.jpg