A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old July 26th 19, 03:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

Welllll.....Â* I think it was a pretty decent flight.Â* Congrats!

And, as to landing at a port of entry to clear customs, I'd bet that's
only required if you intend to land in the country, not fly over it.

On 7/25/2019 7:17 PM, wrote:
Dickhead. Are you waiting for a response from the FSDO so you can tattle? At least he went back to where he came from, and by choice. Different situation down here on the southern border of the US.


--
Dan, 5J
  #52  
Old July 26th 19, 04:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ripacheco1967
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

Good clarification!!!
  #54  
Old July 26th 19, 07:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 11:28:30 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 7/26/2019 7:44 AM:
Jeez much ado about nothing. Harold Eloy made multiple very long (for a 1-26) flights out of canada into North Dakota and beyond. If the perfect day materializes for a flight into canada I will go for it, talk to whoever I can get from ATC and deal with customs after the fact. Its much easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission much of the time.


I suggest you research this choice before you use it. If it's not an emergency,
and you land in Canada or the USA without permission, they may not be very
forgiving. Confiscation of your glider seems a real possibility. My experience
with Customs (US and Canada) is they are often deeply offended by people that
don't follow the correct protocol, and it can expensive and time-consuming to deal
with them.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf


Technically we can declare any glider landout as an emergency. May require to follow up with paperwork, but may be better than dealing with custom...

Ramy
  #55  
Old July 26th 19, 08:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 390
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 10:22:27 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
This pilot made a DEEP entry into the US w/o, apparently, following the laws of the US:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=7436890

Here is what you have to do PRIOR to flying into the US, regardless of whether or not you are a US citizen:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ions/airspace/

Here is just one excerpt:

That was a very nice flight, keep up the good work and come back soon.
All civil, private aircraft entering the U.S. must first land at an airport of entry before continuing to their destinations, unless other arrangements are made with U.S. CBP.

The penalties for violating these laws is pretty stiff, including confiscation of the offending aircraft. And, if you are going to break US law anyhow, DON'T post your flight on the Internet!


  #56  
Old July 26th 19, 08:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 6:17:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Dickhead. Are you waiting for a response from the FSDO so you can tattle? At least he went back to where he came from, and by choice. Different situation down here on the southern border of the US.


Hello Fellow Dickhead,

I don't need to "tattle" on anyone: Chester did that all by himself by posting his flight on a public forum. Furthermore, my objective is to learn the nuances of the law, not to "tattle." And a quick search turned up the following US Code:

8 U.S. Code § 1287. Alien crewmen brought into the United States with intent to evade immigration laws; penalties

Any person, including the owner, agent, consignee, master, or commanding officer of any vessel or aircraft arriving in the United States from any place outside thereof, who shall knowingly sign on the vessel’s articles, or bring to the United States as one of the crew of such vessel or aircraft, any alien, with intent to permit or assist such alien to enter or land in the United States in violation of law, or who shall falsely and knowingly represent to a consular officer at the time of application for visa, or to the immigration officer at the port of arrival in the United States, that such alien is a bona fide member of the crew employed in any capacity regularly required for normal operation and services aboard such vessel or aircraft, shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding $10,000 for each such violation, for which sum such vessel or aircraft shall be liable and may be seized and proceeded against by way of libel in any district court of the United States having jurisdiction of the offense.

=================

Remember, if you get into a dispute with these folks, THEY will be deciding what "intent" means, NOT YOU! Chester, IMO, is skating on thin ice with these flights. He said he was vague about his flight plan, which will be potentially viewed by authorities as being evasive. And if he were forced to land in the US for ANY reason he would clearly be in violation of the law, and be at a very real risk of having his glider seized and a stiff fine imposed. You knuckleheads seem to think that you can violate the law and, if caught, you can talk your way out of it with something ridiculous like "declaring an emergency." Well, THINK AGAIN! These officers hear this crap every day from real criminals and are well versed in the law. Eric had a very close call on this, and only a comment by his wife to a customs officer at the border saved him running afoul with authorities. This is SERIOUS BUSINESS! Unlike most of the rest of you, I actually have Chester's best interests at heart.
  #57  
Old July 26th 19, 09:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

I read of no intent to land in the US in the original post.Â* I'd say
that 8 U.S. Code § 1287 is irrelevant.

On 7/26/2019 1:57 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 6:17:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Dickhead. Are you waiting for a response from the FSDO so you can tattle? At least he went back to where he came from, and by choice. Different situation down here on the southern border of the US.

Hello Fellow Dickhead,

I don't need to "tattle" on anyone: Chester did that all by himself by posting his flight on a public forum. Furthermore, my objective is to learn the nuances of the law, not to "tattle." And a quick search turned up the following US Code:

8 U.S. Code § 1287. Alien crewmen brought into the United States with intent to evade immigration laws; penalties

Any person, including the owner, agent, consignee, master, or commanding officer of any vessel or aircraft arriving in the United States from any place outside thereof, who shall knowingly sign on the vessel’s articles, or bring to the United States as one of the crew of such vessel or aircraft, any alien, with intent to permit or assist such alien to enter or land in the United States in violation of law, or who shall falsely and knowingly represent to a consular officer at the time of application for visa, or to the immigration officer at the port of arrival in the United States, that such alien is a bona fide member of the crew employed in any capacity regularly required for normal operation and services aboard such vessel or aircraft, shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding $10,000 for each such violation, for which sum such vessel or aircraft shall be liable and may be seized and proceeded against by way of libel in any district court of the United States having jurisdiction of the offense.

=================

Remember, if you get into a dispute with these folks, THEY will be deciding what "intent" means, NOT YOU! Chester, IMO, is skating on thin ice with these flights. He said he was vague about his flight plan, which will be potentially viewed by authorities as being evasive. And if he were forced to land in the US for ANY reason he would clearly be in violation of the law, and be at a very real risk of having his glider seized and a stiff fine imposed. You knuckleheads seem to think that you can violate the law and, if caught, you can talk your way out of it with something ridiculous like "declaring an emergency." Well, THINK AGAIN! These officers hear this crap every day from real criminals and are well versed in the law. Eric had a very close call on this, and only a comment by his wife to a customs officer at the border saved him running afoul with authorities. This is SERIOUS BUSINESS! Unlike most of the rest of you, I actually have Chester's best interests at heart.


--
Dan, 5J

  #58  
Old July 26th 19, 09:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Marton KSz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

Dan, 5J

And, as to landing at a port of entry to clear customs, I'd bet that's
only required if you intend to land in the country, not fly over it.


My understanding is the same; there is a difference between 'entering the U..S.' and 'flying in U.S. airspace'.
International airports are good examples to represent these two concepts: "The international zone in an international airport is the area where arriving international passengers have not formally entered the country by clearing arrival customs and immigration controls" - but they flew through the airspace, for sure.
  #59  
Old July 26th 19, 09:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Friesen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 7:22:27 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
This pilot made a DEEP entry into the US w/o, apparently, following the laws of the US:

Sorry, I should resist but I cannot.

This thread could be both amusing and informative, and well worth while. Unfortunately, the original poster is so keen to defend his error.

Every day, Westjet takes off from Vancouver and flies to Puerto Vallarta. For one example amongst hundreds. Every day. Clearly, there is some legal mechanism to do that. There is no doubt in my mind Chester has an understanding of the mechanisms and rules applicable to what he specifically is doing.

Should a passenger have a medical emergency on that Westjet flight, it will land in the U.S. not at the closest point of entry. Clearly, this is some legal mechanism to sort that out after the fact. Chester would be able to defend a landing as an emergency, given it would happen only with both a radical change in weather conditions and an engine failure.
  #60  
Old July 26th 19, 10:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

2G wrote on 7/26/2019 12:57 PM:

Remember, if you get into a dispute with these folks, THEY will be deciding what "intent" means, NOT YOU! Chester, IMO, is skating on thin ice with these flights. He said he was vague about his flight plan, which will be potentially viewed by authorities as being evasive. And if he were forced to land in the US for ANY reason he would clearly be in violation of the law, and be at a very real risk of having his glider seized and a stiff fine imposed. You knuckleheads seem to think that you can violate the law and, if caught, you can talk your way out of it with something ridiculous like "declaring an emergency." Well, THINK AGAIN! These officers hear this crap every day from real criminals and are well versed in the law. Eric had a very close call on this, and only a comment by his wife to a customs officer at the border saved him running afoul with authorities. This is SERIOUS BUSINESS! Unlike most of the rest of you, I actually have Chester's best interests at heart.


Tom remembers my incident correctly, but I don't think it's relevant to Chester's
flight. My situation was very different, because I contacted no one before or
after flying across the border (my bad - ignorance over 35 years ago), nor did I
contact anyone after I landed. Had I contacted the FSS at any time while flying
(and perhaps even after landing), customs would have been notified by the FSS, and
all would have been well.

Chester made sure everyone knew his intent before and during the flight, and
conducted it with the cooperation of ATC. He was flying a motorglider (I wasn't),
and could reasonably expect to return to Canada without landing. If ATC believed
he was operating illegally, they could've requested he land, but they didn't.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
canadian flight plan advice for a U.S. pilot Cirrus Piloting 9 October 29th 06 10:10 PM
Classic RAS posts: Chip Bearden and "pilot relief" Eric Greenwell Soaring 5 February 20th 04 04:59 AM
bushies file illegal flight plan Gordon Naval Aviation 33 January 13th 04 09:05 PM
bushies file illegal flight plan Bob Dornier Military Aviation 19 December 10th 03 04:29 AM
bushies file illegal flight plan JamesF1110 Naval Aviation 1 December 8th 03 01:06 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.