Human factors RECKLESSNESS

Thank you for the kind word, but I'm afraid my flying days are long over
:-)
I know Bob from the old IFPF days. He was one of our charter members.
You have a couple of real heavyweights there in Amelia and Handley. I never
met them, but both are of course well known to me. Amelia was, before her
death and remains today a legend in the California tailwheel and aerobatic
community. Handley I believe is still flying the Oracle bird. God knows what
Bob is doing these days. Probably sitting on his veranda out there in Palos
Verdes looking at the sea gulls flying over the ocean planning some "new"
maneuver to try and refusing to grow old like the rest of us.:-)
Dudley

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dudley,

Your information and attitude on this newsgroup is awesome. I would
love to have you as an aerobatic instructor.

You ever around the Bay Area? I would love to meet with you and talk
with you sometime.

If you know Bob Hoover, then I am sure you knew Amiela Reid and Wayne
Handley? Those are my all time favorite airshow pilots. Before Ameila
Reid passed, I would watch her performmances at the Watsonville Fly-in
in her Cessna 150 Acro, so graceful.

Anyway, keep up the teaching, it is not lost on everybody.

Donovan
C-172 Pilot
150 hrs.

Andrew Gideon wrote:

I felt a rush the first time I flew into a cloud. The goal was to reach the
point where it *doesn't* cause a rush, however.

Sometimes I will stare at an approaching cloud while flying IFR (on
autopilot) and imagine that it is a brick wall. The speed at which it hits
the aircraft still causes a momentary rush in me.

--
Peter


















----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

john smith wrote:
Dudley, don't misunderstand me.
Hoover (an a limited number of others) are special circumstances.
Everything I have read stated that the Shrike was a stock airplane.
I don't recall that Hoover ever spins in the airplane.
The video of the roll while pouring a glass of water is sure a hoot,
though!
As I said in my post, in the right hands, some maneuvers not approve by
the manufacturer can in fact be performed safely.

I believe that Bob also said at one airshow that he never stressed the
Shrike beyond its certification load limits. As someone said earlier,
it often isn't the aerobatic maneuver itself that stresses the airframe,
it is the botched maneuver or the recovery from a botched maneuver where
the extra strength is needed. Obviously, Mr. Hoover doesn't have to
worry about that. :-)


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
john smith wrote:
Dudley, don't misunderstand me.
Hoover (an a limited number of others) are special circumstances.
Everything I have read stated that the Shrike was a stock airplane.
I don't recall that Hoover ever spins in the airplane.
The video of the roll while pouring a glass of water is sure a hoot,
though!
As I said in my post, in the right hands, some maneuvers not approve by
the manufacturer can in fact be performed safely.

I believe that Bob also said at one airshow that he never stressed the
Shrike beyond its certification load limits. As someone said earlier,
it often isn't the aerobatic maneuver itself that stresses the airframe,
it is the botched maneuver or the recovery from a botched maneuver where
the extra strength is needed. Obviously, Mr. Hoover doesn't have to
worry about that. :-)


According to Liefeld, Hoover's Shrike had just two modifications other than
its smoke system. An hydraulic accumulator in the baggage compartment held
hydraulic pressure so Hoover could extend the gear when the airplane was
upside down and the engines feathered. It also provided Hoover with
nosewheel steering following his deadstick landing and rollout.

The second mod was an automatic unfeathering system. Hoover would shut down
the engines by pulling the prop controls to Feather position while leaving
the throttles and mixture controls in place. To restart, he would advance
the prop levers, tripping microswitches on electric pumps that unfeathered
the props so they would windmill and restart.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"jsmith" wrote in message news:J1bce.941

Robert A "Bob" Hoover was a military and civilian pilot that did things
with airplanes others said couldn't be done.

Mr. Hoover, however, is credited by many of the best pilots in the history
of aviation to be the best pilot in the history of aviation.

Bob Hoover can do an 8-point roll, power-off, in a cargo plane, glide it
around the pattern and stop it on a dime. I, personally, would not attempt
to do that.

'Course, I've never flown a roll in an airplane, either. I know, I
know...it's a sad thing. One of these days....
-c

Dudley Henriques wrote:

Everything Bob does and has done in aerobatics with each and every aircraft
he has flown professionally for that purpose has required special waivers
from competent authority.

And certainly an aircraft inspected more often than your average ragged
out trainer. I saw footage of a Hoover wannabe foldering up the wings
on a Partenavia during an airshow.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Everything Bob does and has done in aerobatics with each and every
aircraft
he has flown professionally for that purpose has required special waivers
from competent authority.

And certainly an aircraft inspected more often than your average ragged
out trainer. I saw footage of a Hoover wannabe foldering up the wings
on a Partenavia during an airshow.

Yes; this type of thing is unfortunate. Hoover is very aware of it and
speaks to GA pilots quite often on safety issues. He's always been quite
candid and truthful; especially when discussing his own mistakes.
Copy-cat issues with aerobatic wannabes are quite prevalent in aviation
unfortunately. All of us in the demonstration community do our best to nip
it in the bud when we see it happening. This thread is a good example of
that. Hopefully, I'm well known enough that when I come down on something
like rolling a Cessna 150, pilots, including the 150 driver will listen to
me. It's important that well respected pilots like you and Margy speak out
as well..as you have here. God knows if any of us do any good when things
like this come up. Lord I hope so! I know through the years I've talked on
it many times in aerobatic lectures I've given, and pilots like Hoover talk
on still today.
Dudley

jsmith wrote:

Robert A "Bob" Hoover was a military and civilian pilot that did things
with airplanes others said couldn't be done.

NW_PILOT isn't Bob Hoover.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

No it is my concept of life. Plain in simple lifeis short! You never know
how long you have. So live it like every day is your last.


I'm a career Special Forces officer. I've made my living with and around
firearms, explosives, parachutes, and other risky things. Not to mention
roaming around places like Iraq trying not to get shot or blown up. Two of
my favorite off-duty pursuits are aerobatic flying and mountaineering. So
I'm fairly well acquianted with risk.

Here's the thing: it's not about taking stupid chances in search of an
adrenaline rush. It's about controlling your environment, mastering the
challenges set before you. That means gathering information, knowing all
the risks, having the right skills, and taking appropriate measures to
ensure the outcome is positive. Every time.

If you live like every day is your last, then it will become a
self-fulfilling prophesy. It's a BS attitude. Your mentality should be "I
may die, but it ain't gonna be today." Live to fly (or climb, or jump, or
fight) another day.

I don't know Bob Hoover, but I'm willing to bet that his attitude is closer
to mine than to yours. I've known guys with your attitude. Some of them
grew out of it. The others are dead.

I don't blame you for the roll. I blame your CFI. You, as a student,
cannot be criticized for trusting your CFI to advise you. I probably would
have done the same thing 10 years ago, when I didn't know better. Your CFI
should lose his instructor status, if not his flight privs.

But that highlights the big danger in these kind of endeavors. You do the
right thing by seeking help from an experienced person, but what if that
person turns out to be an idiot? All I can say is be careful who you trust,
seek second opinions, and look for appropriate certifications. One of the
saddest things about the NTSB accident reports are all the stories of
friends and family members killed by jackass pilots doing stupid things.

"Ed H" wrote in message
...

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

No it is my concept of life. Plain in simple lifeis short! You never know
how long you have. So live it like every day is your last.


I'm a career Special Forces officer. I've made my living with and around
firearms, explosives, parachutes, and other risky things. Not to mention
roaming around places like Iraq trying not to get shot or blown up. Two
of my favorite off-duty pursuits are aerobatic flying and mountaineering.
So I'm fairly well acquianted with risk.

Here's the thing: it's not about taking stupid chances in search of an
adrenaline rush. It's about controlling your environment, mastering the
challenges set before you. That means gathering information, knowing all
the risks, having the right skills, and taking appropriate measures to
ensure the outcome is positive. Every time.

If you live like every day is your last, then it will become a
self-fulfilling prophesy. It's a BS attitude. Your mentality should be
"I may die, but it ain't gonna be today." Live to fly (or climb, or jump,
or fight) another day.

I don't know Bob Hoover, but I'm willing to bet that his attitude is
closer to mine than to yours. I've known guys with your attitude. Some
of them grew out of it. The others are dead.

I don't blame you for the roll. I blame your CFI. You, as a student,
cannot be criticized for trusting your CFI to advise you. I probably
would have done the same thing 10 years ago, when I didn't know better.
Your CFI should lose his instructor status, if not his flight privs.

But that highlights the big danger in these kind of endeavors. You do the
right thing by seeking help from an experienced person, but what if that
person turns out to be an idiot? All I can say is be careful who you
trust, seek second opinions, and look for appropriate certifications. One
of the saddest things about the NTSB accident reports are all the stories
of friends and family members killed by jackass pilots doing stupid
things.

It's exactly this philosophy that kept me alive through an entire career of
test flying and demonstrating high performance airplanes at low altitude.
And you're right about Hoover also. I know him, and his philosophy IS
exactly as you have stated here.
Thank you for your service,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)