Human factors RECKLESSNESS

Dudley Henriques wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote...

Dudley Henriques wrote:


Everything Bob does and has done in aerobatics with each and every
aircraft
he has flown professionally for that purpose has required special waivers
from competent authority.

And certainly an aircraft inspected more often than your average ragged
out trainer. I saw footage of a Hoover wannabe foldering up the wings
on a Partenavia during an airshow.


Yes; this type of thing is unfortunate. Hoover is very aware of it and
speaks to GA pilots quite often on safety issues. He's always been quite
candid and truthful; especially when discussing his own mistakes.
Copy-cat issues with aerobatic wannabes are quite prevalent in aviation
unfortunately.

Not just aviation. I rock climb, and at the top of the rock climbing
pyramid are guys that climb thousand foot cliffs of astounding
difficulty, and do it solo without any ropes or other safety gear. Just
their skill.

And when asked about it, to a man they do the right thing and go on and
on, blah, blah, blah, about how they do it for themselves, and no one
else should do it, etc. And still people follow their lead and kill
themselves when they get over their head.

The soloists can do what they do because they have absolute mastery (as
much as one can be a master) of their skills and limitations. The
problem is, their logic of "I am a master, therefore I can solo" gets
turned around by wannabes into "If *I* solo climb, I too must be a
master." At which point natural selection occurs.

Everybody would like to have the skills of Mr. Hoover. More than a few
think they already do. Some will always die trying to prove it, to
themselves and others. So it'll be a constant battle.

strapping yourself to an enormous fuel tank and two rockets is pretty
damn reckless if you ask me, but i respect any astronaut living or who
died exploring new frontiers.

hey so is sailing across the ocean when everyone else expects you to
fall off.

"private" wrote in message

CFIT A multiple champion pilot losses control while reaching for a $100
side
bet.


What accident does this refer to? Who was killed?

NW_PILOT wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Andrew Gideon wrote:


Smutny wrote:



Dude, you really need to step back and take a good look at what you're
exhibiting here.


You know, NW didn't need to post that he was doing aerobatics in a
*nonaerobatic* airplane. He convinced me a while back that he posts for
the shock value, and likely enjoys the huge response he generates as

much

as he enjoys doing inappropriate things in/to aircraft.

I've enjoyed some of the resulting conversation (it never occurred to me
that an inadvertent roll might short the battery's terminals, for

example),

but let's not give him the reward he craves. It just feeds his

addiction,

and he'll be back for more.

- Andrew


Well, if the poster who said he was sending the video to his local FSDO
really does that and wasn't just bluffing, then we may not have to hear
of his aviation recklessness too much longer.

Matt



It's funny how you all think I did this in my airplane my airplane is blue &
white not red.



If you are going to intentionally put an aircraft at risk, I would
rather you do it with your own plane, not one others may rely on or if
damaged put at risk.

On the subject of *Wannabe* flying, I remember a tragic example from
RF-4 training at Mt. home AFB in 1967. A crew from our sister squadron
was working with an Army detachment in the field. After the days
activities were over, the ground controller asked for a fly-by. The
RF-4 jock came by at 500 feet with everything hanging out, gear down,
flaps down, hook down. As he passed by the guys on the ground, he lit
both burners and attempted a roll. Almost made it too, but dished-out
on the bottom and turned it into a flaming ball of wreckage.

While going through the pilots stuff several days later, a video was
found showing the Thunderbirds doing a roll from 500 feet with
everything hanging out using full burner.

JJ Sinclair

Thanks Dudley. No surprise you agree. Most people in dangerous professions
learn to think this way, or they become a statistic. Test pilot, fighter
pilot, aerobatic pilot, soldier, police officer, fireman, mountain climber,
stuntman, race car driver ... the same mentality is essential to success.
Learn as much as you can, prepare as much as you can, and stack the odds in
your favor so you reach the end in one piece.

The old saying is wrong. There are plenty of old, bold pilots. But they
are all old, bold, careful pilots. There are no old, bold, careless pilots.



It's exactly this philosophy that kept me alive through an entire career
of test flying and demonstrating high performance airplanes at low
altitude.
And you're right about Hoover also. I know him, and his philosophy IS
exactly as you have stated here.
Thank you for your service,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)

"Ed" wrote in message
...

Thanks Dudley. No surprise you agree. Most people in dangerous
professions learn to think this way, or they become a statistic. Test
pilot, fighter pilot, aerobatic pilot, soldier, police officer, fireman,
mountain climber, stuntman, race car driver ... the same mentality is
essential to success. Learn as much as you can, prepare as much as you
can, and stack the odds in your favor so you reach the end in one piece.

The old saying is wrong. There are plenty of old, bold pilots. But they
are all old, bold, careful pilots. There are no old, bold, careless
pilots.

It has always amazed me about the "hero" tag people for some reason
absolutely insist on associating with professionals who engage in dangerous
work. The truth of it, as I'm sure you are well aware, is that the "heros"
get killed off pretty quickly. It's the people who treat these jobs with the
respect they deserve that live to do it again and again.
Race driver Tom Sneva said it better than I ever could one day after he
smacked the wall at Indy at 230 mph and walked away. A reporter stuck a mike
in Tom's puss as he was walking in and asked him the wrong question
:-) The reporter asked,
"Boy...I bet you'd like to be able to try that corner again wouldn't you
Tom?"
Sneva just looked at the guy like he was nuts and said simply,
"Yeah right! ......if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd ALL have a
Merry Christmas!!!"
In flying....it's knowing when to be bold and when not to be bold that adds
up to the "old" part!! :-)
Dudley

Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs. You
can't hide from death, it will come to vist one day and unless you are
religious and believe in the afterlife etc, it doesn't really matter if
it is sooner or later, you will still end up dead!

J.


NW_PILOT wrote:
"private" wrote in message
news:hQ7ce.1148571$8l.556991@pd7tw1no...

My apologies to the Usenet police cross posting but



I am in mourning for friends lost, and in sympathy for the families they
left alone.



This week we have seen behavior that can only be described as reckless.



A man posts video of a poorly performed roll in a non aerobatic aircraft
without regard for ...............to say nothing about his instructor
PARTICIPATING. Two survivors and a questionable aircraft



CFIT A multiple champion pilot losses control while reaching for a $100

side

bet.

One fatal.



911?, fuel exhaustion, over water, without flotation, at night. One
(probable) fatal.



I am tempted to ask why? where are we failing? are we glorifying
recklessness? Are we truly self destructive (cigarettes, food, alcohol,
pollution etc)? what can we do? but



I know that we must each find the answers within ourselves and to strive

for

the personal situational control to handle these situations and

temptations.

Training helps, as do mentors. (Thank you Dudley, Gene etal)



I am sick of hearing "he died doing something he loved". It just sounds
trite.



They are always way too young.



My condolences and sympathy to all mourning family and friends.




Ok what about the people you don't here about all the fools driving cars
talking on cell phone, driving while under the influence of a mind altering
substance like Prozac and the many other pansy pills. "Ohh dont for get
about the other drugs people use"

"You know Moving any faster than a walking pace can be potentially fatal!"

I would not say that we are glorifying recklessness, if it wasn't for people
you call reckless we would still be living in caves. Most of us that are in
to flying or other extreme hobbies have a huge respect for life but also
have that need for that adrenalin. I my-self wake up every day and am very
thankful that I don't have to stick a needle in my arm or suck something up
my nose to get that rush, I have many many other activity's like flying to
get that feeling.

You will Die one day that's a fact of Life!! You cannot hide from it! You
cannot run from it! So embrace the Life you have been given and enjoy it
with every breath you take because you may never know when it may be your
last.

You must be very young, to consider 70 an age where one is "sitting in bed
with all types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs".

Though it's still decades away,I have every intention, at 70, of still being
in the left seat!

G Faris

Justin Fielding wrote

Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs.

RIGHT !!!

I have now reached that age (70), but spend no more time in bed than
you do and probably spend a lot more time at the airport or in an
airplane than you do. Still a practicing flight instructor with over
20,000 hours of flying behind me and looking forward to lots more.
I was on the receiving end of a Flight Review just last week and the
other instructor was 76 years old. We had a great time in the 47 year
old Cessna 172.

Bob Moore
ATP B-727 B-707 L-188
CFI CFII
Naval Aviator S-2A P-2V P-3B 1958-1967
Pan American Airways 1967-1991 (retired)