American pilots charged in Amazon jetliner crash

This story just gets more and more bizarre... based on the evidence
I've seen reported so far, it certainly sounds to me like the Brazilian
air traffic control system itself is solely to blame for this accident.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

--
Guy

"Guy Elden Jr" wrote in message
ps.com...
This story just gets more and more bizarre... based on the evidence
I've seen reported so far, it certainly sounds to me like the Brazilian
air traffic control system itself is solely to blame for this accident.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

--
Guy


If these guys go back to Brazil they are idiots. It's pretty obvious they
are being scapegoated and there is no reason to believe they would receive a
fair trial. I have to wonder though if the folks in charge down there
really don't want or expect them to stand trial. Seeing how they have been
kept in county since September 29th and they let them leave AFTER they
formally charge them.

In article ,
Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:

If these guys go back to Brazil they are idiots. It's pretty obvious they
are being scapegoated and there is no reason to believe they would receive a
fair trial. I have to wonder though if the folks in charge down there
really don't want or expect them to stand trial. Seeing how they have been
kept in county since September 29th and they let them leave AFTER they
formally charge them.

The one 'good' thing is that this is an international incident.
If it had been Brazilian pilots on the bizjet, they'd probably be
in jail right now.

One thing I still haven't heard a good answer for is the status of
the transponders and TCAS systems on both aircraft. The early
press had lots of speculation that the bizjet turned off their
transponder, but I haven't heard any credible reports of that.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

Greg Farris wrote:
I don't know how things work in Brazil.
It could be similar to Europe, where a full investigation of the accident
cannot be completed without naming purported "perpetrators" and subjecting them
to a criminal investigation. The fact that the two pilots are named as
defendants does not preclude the naming of the air traffic controlers as well.

One possible weakness of such a method is that it puts a very strong emphasis
on the importance of human imperfections, while leaving little place for the
argument that a system design weakness may be equally to blame, if not more so.

I agree the US pilots would be crazy to EVER go back there - This would even
seem to be implicit in the fact that they were allowed to leave!!

Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S. citizen in the
U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue arrest warrents for
U.S. citizens in the U.S..

-Robert

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
"Guy Elden Jr" wrote in message
ps.com...
This story just gets more and more bizarre... based on the evidence
I've seen reported so far, it certainly sounds to me like the Brazilian
air traffic control system itself is solely to blame for this accident.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

--
Guy


If these guys go back to Brazil they are idiots. It's pretty obvious they
are being scapegoated and there is no reason to believe they would receive a
fair trial.


Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S. citizen in the
U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue arrest warrents for
U.S. citizens in the U.S..

-Robert

Greg Farris wrote:
In article .com,
says... (again)


Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S. citizen in the
U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue arrest warrents for
U.S. citizens in the U.S..



Posting it repeatedly does not really enhance the pertinence of this analogy.

No, but it does show how screwed up the deja server is today.

-Robert

Greg Farris wrote:
In article .com,
says...
I think the US pilots were given a one-way exit visa, and are not expected
to return.

Probably not expected to return by us but it sounds like Brazil expects
them to return...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html
"Joseph Lepore, 42, of Bay Shore, and Jan Paladino, 34, Westhampton
Beach, were questioned by police for six hours and then were allowed to
pick up their passports and leave the country, but they are required to
return for their trial."

However, that doesn't mean they are safe in the U.S. They could still
be forced to return to Brazil. Depends highly on politics.

-Robert

Greg Farris wrote:
I don't know how things work in Brazil.
It could be similar to Europe, where a full investigation of the accident
cannot be completed without naming purported "perpetrators" and subjecting them
to a criminal investigation. The fact that the two pilots are named as
defendants does not preclude the naming of the air traffic controlers as well.

One possible weakness of such a method is that it puts a very strong emphasis
on the importance of human imperfections, while leaving little place for the
argument that a system design weakness may be equally to blame, if not more so.

I agree the US pilots would be crazy to EVER go back there - This would even
seem to be implicit in the fact that they were allowed to leave!!

Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S. citizen in the
U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue arrest warrents for
U.S. citizens in the U.S..

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Greg Farris wrote:
I don't know how things work in Brazil.
It could be similar to Europe, where a full investigation of the accident
cannot be completed without naming purported "perpetrators" and subjecting them
to a criminal investigation. The fact that the two pilots are named as
defendants does not preclude the naming of the air traffic controlers as well.

One possible weakness of such a method is that it puts a very strong emphasis
on the importance of human imperfections, while leaving little place for the
argument that a system design weakness may be equally to blame, if not more so.

I agree the US pilots would be crazy to EVER go back there - This would even
seem to be implicit in the fact that they were allowed to leave!!

Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S. citizen in the
U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue arrest warrents for
U.S. citizens in the U.S..

-Robert


Well, apparently there is no connection between the message "Server
error, message not possed, try again in 30 seconds" and the message
actually posting. ;(

-Robert

I hate it when that happens !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert M. Gary wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
Greg Farris wrote:
I don't know how things work in Brazil.
It could be similar to Europe, where a full investigation of the accident
cannot be completed without naming purported "perpetrators" and subjecting them
to a criminal investigation. The fact that the two pilots are named as
defendants does not preclude the naming of the air traffic controlers as well.

One possible weakness of such a method is that it puts a very strong emphasis
on the importance of human imperfections, while leaving little place for the
argument that a system design weakness may be equally to blame, if not more so.

I agree the US pilots would be crazy to EVER go back there - This would even
seem to be implicit in the fact that they were allowed to leave!!

Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S. citizen in the
U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue arrest warrents for
U.S. citizens in the U.S..

-Robert


Well, apparently there is no connection between the message "Server
error, message not possed, try again in 30 seconds" and the message
actually posting. ;(

-Robert