Mode S transponder display to ATC?

Everett M. Greene wrote:

Michael Huber writes:

Peter wrote:


You would however get into trouble if you recorded ATC and then openly
published the recording, e.g. on a website. I don't know why there is
this sensitivity because UK ATC are generally highly professional;

Maybe a parallel to Germany might help. In Germany, tapping into any
communication not intended by the sender to be heard/read/whatever by
oneself is illegal (regardless of whether there are measures taken to
prevent this) under privacy laws. There are some exceptions, but that's the
general rule. ATC communication is only intended for a limited circle of
recipients. Plane spotters are not the intended recipients, thus, they may
not listen.

It has nothing to do with perceived professionality of the ATC people, and
everything with protecting the privacy of ATC and pilots.


The law in the U.S. is/was that it's illegal to intercept
/and reveal/ the content of a transmission. The courts
have repeatedly ruled that intercepting (listening to) a
transmission is not illegal.

It would seem that the German position is rather extreme
in that the people on a given aviation frequency have no
expectation of privacy (and, for the most part, couldn't
care less). Taken to an extreme, it would seem that the
German equivalent of the FAA can't record ATC transmissions
and use them for quality control, training, or violation
proceedings since uninvolved third parties will have been
recorded.

It makes you understand why they launched both World Wars.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...

Sam,

Not in the U.S.


Source? A source that shows a Garmin GTX330 does not transmit flight ID
data in the US would suffice.


If a tree falls in the woods, but nobody is there to hear it, does it
make a sound?

Good way to put it.

Plus, in the high end gear, the Mode S message data can be implemented in
stages.

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. For GA, I don't think you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B UATs will be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

On 2008-09-08, Peter wrote:
Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz Extended
Squitter - such as can be done with a GTX330?

AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.

1090ES is one of two US ADS-B standards; the other is a standalone
transmitter. I was unaware the GTX330 would do 1090ES. If it does, I'm going
to be very happy indeed, as I'd been thinking the extra $2500 or so I spent
on mine was going to be largely wasted. The common wisdom here is that
1090ES is going to be mostly used by the big iron.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

Everett M. Greene wrote:

Taken to an extreme, it would seem that the
German equivalent of the FAA can't record ATC transmissions
and use them for quality control, training, or violation
proceedings since uninvolved third parties will have been
recorded.

No, it's not. ATC comms are recorded and that is public knowledge (at least
among those participating). You basically consent to being recorded by
transmitting.

Realize that privacy laws do not protect you against other people listening
in or recording what you are saying. They are however protecting you
against being listened to or recorded *without* *your* *knowledge*.

Sam Spade wrote:

It makes you understand why they launched both World Wars.

I'm aware that you're trolling, but how does that follow? The rather strict
privacy laws exist to make it harder for a government (or, really, any
organization or individual) to collect too much data on a single person -
and that is exactly to help prevent a dictatorship.

Sadly, though, that lesson seems to have fallen by the wayside, and more and
more privacy is being invaded by the government. We are following the US'
bad example.

Michael Huber writes:

Realize that privacy laws do not protect you against other people listening
in or recording what you are saying. They are however protecting you
against being listened to or recorded *without* *your* *knowledge*.

How are you able to determine who is listening to you when you talk to ATC?

On Sep 8, 12:19*pm, Peter wrote:
Jay Maynard wrote

On 2008-09-08, Peter wrote:
Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz Extended
Squitter - such as can be done with a GTX330?

AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.

1090ES is one of two US ADS-B standards; the other is a standalone
transmitter. I was unaware the GTX330 would do 1090ES. If it does, I'm going
to be very happy indeed, as I'd been thinking the extra $2500 or so I spent
on mine was going to be largely wasted. The common wisdom here is that
1090ES is going to be mostly used by the big iron.

I am really not up to date on this (no immediate need to know) but
AIUI the GTX330 will radiate anything and everything presented to it
via its RS232 or ARINC inputs and this means that if you install a
GTX330 and feed it with the normal ex-NMEA data, it will radiate the
whole lot. Airliners everywhere radiate the whole lot, as a result of
being Enhanced Mode S (250kt TAS, 5700kg I think).

So that takes care of the transmitting bit.

Does the GTX330 also *receive* the 1090ES data? I believe so. I do
have the installation manual, though not to hand.

I think as things currently stand you have to purchase Garmin's GDL90
to receive.

On Sep 8, 12:40*pm, Peter wrote:
"Mike" wrote
[...] as the ADS-B UATs will be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz [...]

Both (1090 and UAT).

Regards,
Jon

On 2008-09-08, paul kgyy wrote:
On Sep 8, 12:19*pm, Peter wrote:
Does the GTX330 also *receive* the 1090ES data? I believe so. I do
have the installation manual, though not to hand.
I think as things currently stand you have to purchase Garmin's GDL90
to receive.

A Google turns up a PowerPoint from Garmin that the GTX330ES will be
available in the fourth quarter this year, and will talk to the GNS430W/530W
and GNS480 for 1090ES data. It doesn't say if it'll do ADS-B In from 1090ES,
but since it already does mode S uplink (for TIS, at least, in the US), I
would expect that it does. The existing GTX330 fleet, according to that
presentation, will be upgradeable to the ES version for $1200. I couldn't
tell if the GNS430W would also need an upgrade.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS
Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. For GA, I don't think
you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B UATs will
be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz Extended
Squitter - such as can be done with a GTX330?

The capstone project in Alaska implemented it with UATs and I'm pretty sure
that's the way it's currently being implemented on the east coast working
its way west. As far as extended squitter goes, I know at one time that was
the plan for the airlines because they had already made a large capital
investment in it. I'm not really sure what progress has been made on that
front.


AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.