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#1
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Is this chopper about to crash?
It would appear that the majority in aus.aviation seem to think this shot
http://www.thedamnedestthing.com/page15.html was moments from impact, but then they fly the wrong type of aircraft in that newsgroup, so what would they know. If not how is it still in the air at that angle? My "hunch" is that it could be feasible to fly at that angle while towing a load, but it's certainly just a hunch, my knowledge of physics is high school level, and helicopter flight knowledge even less. Trentus |
#2
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Ask the question again when the server is serving.
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#3
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On 2003-12-17 21:39:35 -0800, Larry Fransson said:
Ask the question again when the server is serving. Okay, it's working now. I don't know, but it doesn't look good to me! |
#4
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"Trentus" wrote in message ...
It would appear that the majority in aus.aviation seem to think this shot http://www.thedamnedestthing.com/page15.html was moments from impact, but then they fly the wrong type of aircraft in that newsgroup, so what would they know. If not how is it still in the air at that angle? My "hunch" is that it could be feasible to fly at that angle while towing a load, but it's certainly just a hunch, my knowledge of physics is high school level, and helicopter flight knowledge even less. Trentus That picture has been around for a long time now and is amazing to those of us, well at least me!, who fly helicopters for a living. I'm sure the crew lifted off wondering what it would take to make this work and had some help on the ground to tell them what was happening where they couldn't see. As they pulled pitch and forward cyclic I can only imagine what the view was in the cockpit and certainly someone was watching the blade tips to avoid ground contact while they waited to see if the load would move or not. There is no doubt in my military mind they were VERY cognizant of what they were doing. This kind of ranks up there with the USMC flag raising on Suribachi for dramatic impact. Before you holler at me...I am an old 10 year active duty Marine and still stand at attention when the Marine Hymn is played and I've got more than 21,000 hours of interesting flying. |
#5
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Actually as seen in that that photo, the Boeing Vertol 107 is towing the
sled seen behind it. The photo was shot in Greenland. and I actually have or did have an original copy from the film. Bob |
#6
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Clark wrote:
"Trentus" wrote in : It would appear that the majority in aus.aviation seem to think this shot http://www.thedamnedestthing.com/page15.html was moments from impact, but then they fly the wrong type of aircraft in that newsgroup, so what would they know. If not how is it still in the air at that angle? My "hunch" is that it could be feasible to fly at that angle while towing a load, but it's certainly just a hunch, my knowledge of physics is high school level, and helicopter flight knowledge even less. No, it's not about to crash. Check out http://www.colheli.com/colheli.html and look at the The Hover Barge Photo under the Nesw & Events menu. According to the article they only had a 25° nose down attitude. It looks alot worse than that in the picture. Since most helicopters of this size typically lift twice there own weight (when empty). I would estimate that the maximum theoretical nose down angle whould be 60°. This gives you a thrust vector component of twice youre vertical component. However the transmission lube systems would not like this at all. John Roncallo |
#7
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According to the article they only had a 25° nose down attitude. It
looks alot worse than that in the picture. Since most helicopters of this size typically lift twice there own weight (when empty). I would estimate that the maximum theoretical nose down angle whould be 60°. This gives you a thrust vector component of twice youre vertical component. However the transmission lube systems would not like this at all. John Roncallo As long as you can maintain a vertical component of lift equal to the weight of the helicopter, you'll be Ok. Either way, that looks like one hell of a balancing act. I don't know for sure but that looks like it might not be too much different from a simple (huh?) hover with a heavy sling load as far as control imputs are concerned. Of course, I'm probably wrong about that. It's never that easy, if hovering is considered easy. :-) Fly Safe, Steve R. |
#8
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"Bob" wrote in message
... Actually as seen in that that photo, the Boeing Vertol 107 is towing the sled seen behind it. The photo was shot in Greenland. and I actually have or did have an original copy from the film. Bob Yes, I was aware it was towing, but that's a scarey angle, the view from the cockpit must have been pretty amazing, they'd see little more than the ground, but I just had a "hunch" that it would still be ok, despite how it appears, and that a crash ISN'T imminent. But that's gotta be one pretty damned brave, or very confident in his abilities, pilot. Trentus |
#9
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"Trentus" wrote:
Yes, I was aware it was towing, but that's a scarey angle, the view from the cockpit must have been pretty amazing, they'd see little more than the The camera that took the photo was above the helicopter in the photo. This makes it look like its at a lower angle than it really is. Not only that, but the article says that a telephoto lense was also used which can also alter perception. If you have ever seen MASH on TV, the opening credits show what appears to be helicopters flying backwards. In reality, its helicopters flying forward with the camera behind them flying forward faster. Dennis Hawkins n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do) "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work. A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work. A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work." To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using them to put Americans out of work, visit the following web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm |
#10
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"Rhodesst" wrote in message ... According to the article they only had a 25° nose down attitude. It looks alot worse than that in the picture. Since most helicopters of this size typically lift twice there own weight (when empty). I would estimate that the maximum theoretical nose down angle whould be 60°. This gives you a thrust vector component of twice youre vertical component. However the transmission lube systems would not like this at all. John Roncallo As long as you can maintain a vertical component of lift equal to the weight of the helicopter, you'll be Ok. Either way, that looks like one hell of a balancing act. I don't know for sure but that looks like it might not be too much different from a simple (huh?) hover with a heavy sling load as far as control imputs are concerned. Of course, I'm probably wrong about that. It's never that easy, if hovering is considered easy. :-) Fly Safe, Steve R. Ok i have read all the posts up to 23rd dec on this thread, i understand it's some sort of an illusion. I know next to nothing about sling operations. I'm just surprised that no one seemed to think about the principles of dynamic roll over and try to apply them here ? I know the sling load probably isn't stuck to the ground ..but could become stuck, then there is inertia and acceleration considerations, i have only a fuzzy understanding of all this ...but i think that the maximum nose down angle when towing would be a lot less than anyones gut feeling or quick calculation based only on thrust to weight ratios and thrust vectors. Do i have a point ? I'm sure someone will elaborate on this? |
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