Wind/Solar Electrics ???

Alan Adrian wrote:

No doubt you are correct....

No. GG is the ignorant one again. MSW is professional EE talk.

When people try to sell a "Modified Sine wave" inverter they are either
ignorant or shysters.

Nick

wrote:
Alan Adrian wrote:


No doubt you are correct....


No. GG is the ignorant one again. MSW is professional EE talk.

I'd rather call it professional sales talk. It's not a modified sine
wave, it's a modified square wave to approximate a sine wave, and in
many cases, sufficiently close enough. We run our whole house on a MSW
unit. Trace's DR series inverters were MSW.



When people try to sell a "Modified Sine wave" inverter they are either
ignorant or shysters.

nope, just normal sales folk. unfortunately, it became an industry term.



Nick



--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

No, what is being marketed is a "Modified Square Wave" inverter.

The ignorant can be forgiven.

The shyster wants you to believe that you are buying a better inverter
than it really is.

Buyer beware.

Alan Adrian wrote:
No doubt you are correct....

But a "modified sine wave" inverter is a way for someone to tell you that
you are buying a device which doesn't put out a proper sine wave... rather
one which consists of an approximate sinusoidal curve made up from square
bits...

So it's not a modified sine wave, but rather a near sine wave with lots of
edges... Inferior in every way (but price) to a real sine wave inverter...

Al...

"George Ghio" wrote in message
...


wrote:


There are 2 main invertor options, sine or modified sine, which is IRL
rectangular wave. IIRC, iron fl ballasts and motors can overheat on
MSW, so all your apps ideally want sine. However MSW is much cheaper,
and there are workarounds. Fl lights can be run at just slightly
reduced power, or heatsinks added to the ballasts, etc. Electronic
ballast lights would run happily on 150v dc. Motor driven tools would
be fine as is unless youre running them to where they already get
seriously hot, ie heavy use. There are ways round it if it proves to be
an issue.

Small point.

Why would anybody modify a sine wave?

When people try to sell a "Modified Sine wave" inverter they are either
ignorant or shysters.

Hi Nick

MSW is a shysters sales pitch which misrepresents the product.

Sort of like someone selling bilge pumps as suitable for continuous duty.

wrote:
Alan Adrian wrote:


No doubt you are correct....


No. GG is the ignorant one again. MSW is professional EE talk.


When people try to sell a "Modified Sine wave" inverter they are either
ignorant or shysters.


Nick

Steve Spence wrote:
wrote:

Alan Adrian wrote:


No doubt you are correct....



No. GG is the ignorant one again. MSW is professional EE talk.


I'd rather call it professional sales talk. It's not a modified sine
wave, it's a modified square wave to approximate a sine wave, and in
many cases, sufficiently close enough. We run our whole house on a MSW
unit. Trace's DR series inverters were MSW.

I have nothing against the modified sq. wave inverters.

Misrepresenting a product is lying.



When people try to sell a "Modified Sine wave" inverter they are
either ignorant or shysters.


nope, just normal sales folk. unfortunately, it became an industry term.


Nope, shysters or ignorant. The ignorant don't know any better and the
shyster is a lier and a thief. No point doing business with either of
them. "Modified Sq. Wave" is just that. Sine Wave is not stepped.

Both types of inverter have uses and can provide good service. But a lie
is a lie.




Nick

Frank Bemelman wrote:
"Spehro Pefhany" schreef in bericht
...
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:33:33 +1100, the renowned George Ghio


When people try to sell a "Modified Sine wave" inverter they are either
ignorant or shysters.

To paraphrase a classic George Carlin routine- "I'll tell you what
'modified sine wave' means-- no f*cking sine waves".

I would label the boxes with a nice star shaped
sticker "powerful harmonic sine waves".

ha, youre a natural

NT

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:05:32 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:

I have nothing against the modified sq. wave inverters.

Misrepresenting a product is lying.

Using industry-accepted terminology to describe a product does not
constitute lying.

Nope, shysters or ignorant. The ignorant don't know any better and the
shyster is a lier and a thief. No point doing business with either of
them.

No point in doing business with the ignorant? Sounds like a good idea
considering the following Ghioism....

"Modified Sq. Wave" is just that. Sine Wave is not stepped.

sigh You might correct your error by listing some popular "sine"
wave inverters, and the number of steps in their "not stepped"
waveforms.

Wayne

wmbjk wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:05:32 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:


I have nothing against the modified sq. wave inverters.

Misrepresenting a product is lying.


Using industry-accepted terminology to describe a product does not
constitute lying.

When a lie becomes industry-accepted terminology then the industry is in
deep ****.


Nope, shysters or ignorant. The ignorant don't know any better and the
shyster is a lier and a thief. No point doing business with either of
them.


No point in doing business with the ignorant? Sounds like a good idea
considering the following Ghioism....


"Modified Sq. Wave" is just that. Sine Wave is not stepped.


sigh You might correct your error by listing some popular "sine"
wave inverters, and the number of steps in their "not stepped"
waveforms.

Yes Mildred there really are true sine wave inverters that are not just
a sq. wave with many, many steps.

Do your own ****ing search.

Wayne

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:35:16 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:

wmbjk wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:05:32 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:

When a lie becomes industry-accepted terminology then the industry is in
deep ****.

It was never a "lie" except in your ignorant vernacular. And for an
industry in "deep ****" it seems to be doing rather well overall.

"Modified Sq. Wave" is just that. Sine Wave is not stepped.


sigh You might correct your error by listing some popular "sine"
wave inverters, and the number of steps in their "not stepped"
waveforms.

Yes Mildred there really are true sine wave inverters that are not just
a sq. wave with many, many steps.

Another unsupported claim by Mr. Hole Digger. But at least you've
admitted in weasel-speak that some snorf "sine" wave inverters *do*
have stepped waveforms. Would you say that they're manufactured and
sold by liars?

Do your own ****ing search.

I take that to mean that you won't be providing any examples of sine
wave inverters with stepless waveforms. What a shocker.

Wayne

wmbjk wrote:
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:35:16 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:


wmbjk wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:05:32 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:


When a lie becomes industry-accepted terminology then the industry is in
deep ****.


It was never a "lie" except in your ignorant vernacular. And for an
industry in "deep ****" it seems to be doing rather well overall.


"Modified Sq. Wave" is just that. Sine Wave is not stepped.


sigh You might correct your error by listing some popular "sine"
wave inverters, and the number of steps in their "not stepped"
waveforms.

Yes Mildred there really are true sine wave inverters that are not just
a sq. wave with many, many steps.


Another unsupported claim by Mr. Hole Digger. But at least you've
admitted in weasel-speak that some snorf "sine" wave inverters *do*
have stepped waveforms. Would you say that they're manufactured and
sold by liars?


Do your own ****ing search.


I take that to mean that you won't be providing any examples of sine
wave inverters with stepless waveforms. What a shocker.

Wayne

although I find myself in agreement with george (very scary, especially
after his recent voltage driven LED faux pas) that the moniker "Modified
Sine Wave" is a misleading term, and should be changed to "Modified
Square Wave" in order to more accurately reflect the technology, you
seemed to have gotten under his skin a bit. Congrats.


--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html