Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

The maximum spacing between runway edge lights is 200'. Airport operators

are unlikely to spend the extra money for tighter spacing.

200' hopefully is enough space to stop the glider from a speed where you
still
have aerodynamic control.

On your first glider landing on pavement you will discover a longer ground

roll, especially if there's a downhill gradient.

I was thinking I could steer the glider off between the lights but ran out
of
energy as the slow speed passing the last light was not enough to get off
the
side.

But there's other nasty stuff that can lurk alongside paved runways.

Those with better skills can turn off onto a taxiway - watch out for props.


Better to stop on the runway and assess where you can safely pull off the
glider.

It helps to know the local airports and which ones are not suitable.

My objection was with the "landing speed" case.

I've only flown a "self leveling" glider for about 9 months and,
frankly, I'm more concerned about tip strikes now with the long wings
which can rock down to runway sign height with very little wind. I was
never concerned about catching a wingtip in a single wheel glider. With
no more than a few knots IAS, it just takes paying attention to keep the
wings pretty much level. Slower than that, use the brake. If your
brake doesn't work, fix it.

There's just too much talk these days about protecting us from the
perils of the pursuits we choose to take and not enough attention to
developing the skills necessary to enjoy them safely and handle the
occasional curve ball.

On 1/3/2017 10:04 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 11:23:33 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
If the glider's wing contacts a runway light or deflector at "landing
speed" you should direct your budget at pilot training.

I think the concern is that last few knots with a cross wind and no more
rudder or aileron authority. But then the brake should be sufficient by
that time.

On 1/2/2017 11:53 PM, Heinz Gehlhaar wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 5:53:09 AM UTC-8, wrote:
My club recently had its first wingtip damage from a runway light. These lights stick up about a foot or so and are sometimes hard to avoid.

What solutions have other soaring clubs found to deal with them?

I was thinking that it maybe a good idea to put a deflector in front of the lights. If the wing is going to hit, it would hopefully deflect the wing up and over the light.
I was hoping the right design might not obscure the light any more than a tall weed. What are chances of getting something like this approved or accepted by either an airport authority or the FAA?
Did you calculate the loads on the glider-wing/deflector as the glider strikes the angle of the deflector at landing speeds and considering the roll inertia of the glider? My gut-feel tells me that the angle needs to be much shallower.
--
Dan, 5J
From a guy with a self leveling glider. We teach about this issue constantly, mostly because we fly in a very space restricted facility with respect to width.
I suspect others have the same issue.
UH

--
Dan, 5J

I've got a better idea to solve the runway light problem... Let's put a push-button switch on the left and the right side of the control column. If holding the stick hard over is not seeming sufficient to raise a wing over a runway light, then push the button on the down wing side of the stick for additional lifting force.

The push-button controls a solenoid valve that releases a jet of compressed gas through a nozzle on the underside of the wing that needs lifting. Most of us out west already carry a bottle of compressed gas that is used for another purpose. All that would be needed is plumbing in the wings as well as a nozzle outboard on each wing. The nozzle could be taped over to avoid adding drag. Such cold gas thrusters have been used for space vehicle attitude and other purposes; there is a body of design information on the subject.

Besides solving the runway light problem, a wing thruster could be used to address various other matters of urgency related to low speed roll control during takeoff and landing and might also be used to facilitate safe take off without a wing runner.

(you heard it first on RAS)

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 11:27:26 AM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
I've got a better idea to solve the runway light problem... Let's put a push-button switch on the left and the right side of the control column. If holding the stick hard over is not seeming sufficient to raise a wing over a runway light, then push the button on the down wing side of the stick for additional lifting force.

The push-button controls a solenoid valve that releases a jet of compressed gas through a nozzle on the underside of the wing that needs lifting. Most of us out west already carry a bottle of compressed gas that is used for another purpose. All that would be needed is plumbing in the wings as well as a nozzle outboard on each wing. The nozzle could be taped over to avoid adding drag. Such cold gas thrusters have been used for space vehicle attitude and other purposes; there is a body of design information on the subject.

Besides solving the runway light problem, a wing thruster could be used to address various other matters of urgency related to low speed roll control during takeoff and landing and might also be used to facilitate safe take off without a wing runner.

(you heard it first on RAS)

I think your idea blows! LOL
Full development of the idea would automate so that it is actuated when the stick is at a specified position, say 90% of available motion, and speed below a specified level, say 40 mph or so.
UH

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:27:26 AM UTC-8, Steve Koerner wrote:
I've got a better idea to solve the runway light problem... Let's put a push-button switch on the left and the right side of the control column. If holding the stick hard over is not seeming sufficient to raise a wing over a runway light, then push the button on the down wing side of the stick for additional lifting force.

The push-button controls a solenoid valve that releases a jet of compressed gas through a nozzle on the underside of the wing that needs lifting. Most of us out west already carry a bottle of compressed gas that is used for another purpose. All that would be needed is plumbing in the wings as well as a nozzle outboard on each wing. The nozzle could be taped over to avoid adding drag. Such cold gas thrusters have been used for space vehicle attitude and other purposes; there is a body of design information on the subject.

Besides solving the runway light problem, a wing thruster could be used to address various other matters of urgency related to low speed roll control during takeoff and landing and might also be used to facilitate safe take off without a wing runner.

(you heard it first on RAS)

Haha!
Perhaps Steve got the calendar mixed up 1/4 versus 4/1.
Jim

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:27:26 AM UTC-8, Steve Koerner wrote:
I've got a better idea to solve the runway light problem... Let's put a push-button switch on the left and the right side of the control column. If holding the stick hard over is not seeming sufficient to raise a wing over a runway light, then push the button on the down wing side of the stick for additional lifting force.

The push-button controls a solenoid valve that releases a jet of compressed gas through a nozzle on the underside of the wing that needs lifting. Most of us out west already carry a bottle of compressed gas that is used for another purpose. All that would be needed is plumbing in the wings as well as a nozzle outboard on each wing. The nozzle could be taped over to avoid adding drag. Such cold gas thrusters have been used for space vehicle attitude and other purposes; there is a body of design information on the subject.

Besides solving the runway light problem, a wing thruster could be used to address various other matters of urgency related to low speed roll control during takeoff and landing and might also be used to facilitate safe take off without a wing runner.

(you heard it first on RAS)


NASA calls that RCS (Reaction Control System). Might be useful during flight in the atmosphere too. I'm thinking about all those times when I realized I'd rolled into the thermal in the wrong direction...

;-)

9B

Your proposed deflector would have to be pretty narrow not to block the
light from view. Something narrower than the runway light would cause
more damage to a wing than the light itself. Think pounds per square
inch or a woman's high heel shoe. Removable runway lights would be a
much better solution.

On 1/3/2017 11:21 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 11:23:33 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
If the glider's wing contacts a runway light or deflector at "landing
speed" you should direct your budget at pilot training.

I think the concern is that last few knots with a cross wind and no more
rudder or aileron authority. But then the brake should be sufficient by
that time.
--
Dan, 5J
Well nice theory that better training is the whole answer, primary training is where we have seen the damage - the longer wings flown by students. The last few feet with limited contrl and the wind are a factor. So an impact ever few hundred cycles is not hard to imagine.

--
Dan, 5J

OK, I'll Bite, WTF is a self leveling glider?

After our Grob's encounter with a runway light, we no longer condone attempting to roll off the runway in a club ship. Stop it on the runway, get out, and push it off. Not a 100% guarantee, but the collision speed will be much lower.

SF

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:47:02 PM UTC-5, SF wrote:
OK, I'll Bite, WTF is a self leveling glider?

After our Grob's encounter with a runway light, we no longer condone attempting to roll off the runway in a club ship. Stop it on the runway, get out, and push it off. Not a 100% guarantee, but the collision speed will be much lower.

SF

Stemme has a 2 wheel(though narrow) landing gear.
Humor goes no where.
UH

Originally Posted by SF

OK, I'll Bite, WTF is a self leveling glider?

After our Grob's encounter with a runway light, we no longer condone attempting to roll off the runway in a club ship. Stop it on the runway, get out, and push it off. Not a 100% guarantee, but the collision speed will be much lower.

SF

The Stemme S10, although on uneven ground the wings rock up and down quite a bit