Mid-air in California

That fact that it is extremely rare probably does not make anyone
involved feel any better about it.

There were four souls lost in the collision between a 152 and a 172. AP
and CNN say one of them was in a car in the ground and the rest on
board the planes. UPI says two of the victims were on the ground. I
suppose it will take some time to straighten out what happened.

Tragic. The longer I am a pilot, the more it seems to grieve me to hear
of things like this.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

In article 2008012019394416807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom,
C J Campbell wrote:
That fact that it is extremely rare probably does not make anyone
involved feel any better about it.

There were four souls lost in the collision between a 152 and a 172. AP
and CNN say one of them was in a car in the ground and the rest on
board the planes. UPI says two of the victims were on the ground. I
suppose it will take some time to straighten out what happened.

Tragic. The longer I am a pilot, the more it seems to grieve me to hear
of things like this.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor


Indeed.

Based on the limited information that has come out thus far, both aircraft
appeared to have been in the Corona, CA area, which is fairly congested
airspace both due to the presence of the Corona airport (AJO) and because
it's a commonly used corridor around the Class C airspace associated
with John Wayne (SNA), Ontario (ONT) and Riverside (RIV).

You are correct in that despite of the rarity of such an event (as evident
by the fact that it made national news - when was the late time a fatal
car crash made national news?), it is still a terrible tragidy.

-- Dane

We get gas there all the time. That place gets busy on the weekend.
"Dane Spearing" wrote in message
...
In article 2008012019394416807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom,
C J Campbell wrote:
That fact that it is extremely rare probably does not make anyone
involved feel any better about it.

There were four souls lost in the collision between a 152 and a 172. AP
and CNN say one of them was in a car in the ground and the rest on
board the planes. UPI says two of the victims were on the ground. I
suppose it will take some time to straighten out what happened.

Tragic. The longer I am a pilot, the more it seems to grieve me to hear
of things like this.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor


Indeed.

Based on the limited information that has come out thus far, both aircraft
appeared to have been in the Corona, CA area, which is fairly congested
airspace both due to the presence of the Corona airport (AJO) and because
it's a commonly used corridor around the Class C airspace associated
with John Wayne (SNA), Ontario (ONT) and Riverside (RIV).

You are correct in that despite of the rarity of such an event (as evident
by the fact that it made national news - when was the late time a fatal
car crash made national news?), it is still a terrible tragidy.

-- Dane

C J Campbell wrote:
That fact that it is extremely rare probably does not make anyone
involved feel any better about it.

There were four souls lost in the collision between a 152 and a 172. AP
and CNN say one of them was in a car in the ground and the rest on board
the planes. UPI says two of the victims were on the ground. I suppose it
will take some time to straighten out what happened.

And, true to form, the ABC station's live-on-the-scene bimbo noted that
they had been unable to determine yet if either plane had filed a flight
plan with the Corona airport. Good grief.

Rich Ahrens wrote in
. net:

C J Campbell wrote:
That fact that it is extremely rare probably does not make anyone
involved feel any better about it.

There were four souls lost in the collision between a 152 and a 172.
AP and CNN say one of them was in a car in the ground and the rest on
board the planes. UPI says two of the victims were on the ground. I
suppose it will take some time to straighten out what happened.

And, true to form, the ABC station's live-on-the-scene bimbo noted
that they had been unable to determine yet if either plane had filed a
flight plan with the Corona airport. Good grief.


I stopped paying any attention whatsoever to that stuff years ago lest I
drive myself to apoplexy over it.

It's gaurunteed, every time.


Bertie

On 2008-01-20 20:52:36 -0800, Bertie the Bunyip said:

Rich Ahrens wrote in
. net:

C J Campbell wrote:
That fact that it is extremely rare probably does not make anyone
involved feel any better about it.

There were four souls lost in the collision between a 152 and a 172.
AP and CNN say one of them was in a car in the ground and the rest on
board the planes. UPI says two of the victims were on the ground. I
suppose it will take some time to straighten out what happened.

And, true to form, the ABC station's live-on-the-scene bimbo noted
that they had been unable to determine yet if either plane had filed a
flight plan with the Corona airport. Good grief.


I stopped paying any attention whatsoever to that stuff years ago lest I
drive myself to apoplexy over it.

It's gaurunteed, every time.


Bertie

I see what you mean. Excite (AP) has "raining debris and bodies down on
car dealership parking lots" and "investigators had not yet obtained a
flight plan."

You can just feel the sensitivity, can't you?
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

When you hear these comments on the air or see them in print, take the time
to send an email or letter to the reporter. Don't lecture or go overboard.
Politely point out how stupid it sounds for them to say such things. Not too
technical. I use something like,

"Regarding the tragic airplane accident that you reported on XXXXX. Since
airplane accidents are fairly rare, I do understand why they get so much
media attention. As a pilot and frequent airplane passenger, I wish they
didn't happen at all. However, we all accept a level of risk in most things
that we do - like driving cars or just walking down the street.

I wanted to make you aware that flight plans are not required for a large
portion of flights that occur in this country. Very similar to leaving the
driveway in your car. You are responsible for maneuvering your car, avoiding
others, following the rules of the road, and getting to your destination
without causing an accident. This is true for every flight. The commercial
flights and many General Aviation flights do use Air Traffic Control to
assist, but the responsibility still largely remains with the pilot. A
"Flight Plan" is not necessary to fly safely nor does it guarantee safety.

Sometimes, things go wrong. Maybe a mechanical problem that affects your
ability to control your car - or someone else. Sometimes, it is a lapse in
judgment - or distractions. We all try to avoid these situations to the best
of our ability in all things that we do.

As you reported, we don't yet know all the details of what went wrong with
the accident planes on XXXXX. When we do, pilots everywhere will be looking
for lessons learned to avoid putting themselves in the same situation. I
wish other car drivers were as diligent as my fellow pilots in trying to
follow the rules and learn from the past.

Until we know more, sensationalizing these kinds of stories based on
conjecture or a lack of understanding is not the kind of responsible
reporting I have come to expect from you or your station/paper.

I would be happy to discuss flying more or to put you in contact with other
local pilots, Air Traffic Control, or airport authorities. If you would like
to understand the system and what flying in the United States is like, let
me know."

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK
"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message
. net...
C J Campbell wrote:
That fact that it is extremely rare probably does not make anyone
involved feel any better about it.

There were four souls lost in the collision between a 152 and a 172. AP
and CNN say one of them was in a car in the ground and the rest on board
the planes. UPI says two of the victims were on the ground. I suppose it
will take some time to straighten out what happened.

And, true to form, the ABC station's live-on-the-scene bimbo noted that
they had been unable to determine yet if either plane had filed a flight
plan with the Corona airport. Good grief.

Well I was right. This time it was puddle jumpers.
The next time it may be a heavy over a school or shopping
mall. Near mid-air's and runway collisions are rapidly
rising within our Air Traffic control system. However, the
LIARS in FAA management continue to deny and obfuscate
reality.

The big one is coming. SOON.


NEWARK (CBS) -- There was another near mid-air collision at
Newark Liberty Airport Wednesday, forcing the Federal
Aviation Administration to call an emergency meeting on the
matter.

http://wcbstv.com/local/newark.airpo....2.632715.html

Another example of the FAILED Aviation Administration's
march toward disaster. But don't worry, the FAA's
"Diversity" hiring goals have been met.

It really does not matter if FAA management is "Qualified"

People are going to die soon. Real soon.

So go ahead FAILED Aviation Administration management. Keep
screwing over your controllers and technicians while
expanding your FAA management staff. The burned bodies and
guts will be on your back soon. Get ready.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:39:44 -0800, C J Campbell
wrote in
2008012019394416807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:

That fact that it is extremely rare ...

A MAC occurred at Corona Municipal Airport less than ten years ago:
3/19/1998

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...11X09700&key=1
NTSB Identification: LAX98FA118A
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Thursday, March 19, 1998 in CORONA, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 10/13/2000
Aircraft: Cessna 310H, registration: N310RR
Injuries: 3 Fatal.
A Cessna 310 and a Cessna 152 collided in-flight about 2 miles
south of the Corona airport at 2,600 feet mean sea level (about
2,000 above ground level). The Cessna 310, with two pilots aboard,
was descending toward another nearby area airport, and the Cessna
152, flown by a certified flight instructor (the sole occupant)
from the right seat, was orbiting south of the airport awaiting
the reopening of the runway following construction. Radar data
showed that in the 1 minute 18 seconds prior to the collision, the
Cessna 310 descended from 4,000 feet to the collision point on a
southeast bound ground track at a rate of about 1,200 feet per
minute. Nine seconds prior to the collision, the Cessna 152, which
had been on a westbound track, began a right turn toward a
northwest bound ground track. Over the 1 minute 18 second period,
the horizontal separation decreased from 6.01 nautical miles to
zero as the vertical separation decreased 1,400 feet.
Reconstruction of the two airplanes revealed that at the point of
collision, the Cessna 310's lateral axis was about 80 degrees to
the Cessna 152's vertical axis as the 310's outer right wing and
tip tank contacted the 152's left main gear strut, lift strut, and
inboard left wing. In the one minute prior to the collision, the
relative horizontal bearing from the Cessna 310 ground track to
the Cessna 152 was between 8 and 10 degrees left of the track.
During this same period, the relative horizontal bearing from the
Cessna 152 ground track to the Cessna 310 varied between 25
degrees and 40 degrees right of the Cessna 152 ground track as it
maneuvered prior to the right turn. Trigonometric calculation of
altitude difference between the targets yielded a 2 degree 10
minute relative vertical angle between the target positions.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows:

The failure of both pilots to maintain an adequate visual lookout
and to see and avoid the other airplane.

Full narrative available

On Jan 21, 5:51 pm, Slug wrote:
Well I was right. This time it was puddle jumpers.
The next time it may be a heavy over a school or shopping
mall. Near mid-air's and runway collisions are rapidly
rising within our Air Traffic control system. However, the
LIARS in FAA management continue to deny and obfuscate
reality.

The big one is coming. SOON.


I must've read on an average at least one newspaper article with
similar headlines over the past five years about the (reportedly)
dangerous scene in India. Either the scribes have been unduly antsy or
we've been dashed lucky thus far.

Reports of near-misses between civilian and military aircraft where
the former use the latter's airfields - and there are a fair few of
them - are especially rife.

Ramapriya