Flaps/No flaps...practical difference??

On 8/18/2019 2:30 AM, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, 17 August 2019 01:07:44 UTC+3, BobW wrote:

Point being, anyone seriously claiming 'there's no practical difference
in landing capability' between flapped and unflapped gliders is either
genuinely ignorant, or 'discussionally choosing' to ignore the very real
additional landing-capabilities associated with large-deflection
landing-flaps.

YMMV, Bob - Cap't. Obvious - W.


Sure, if you totally botch landing circuit and approach way too high and
fast, '20 flaps will get you down sooner than D2 airbrakes. But if you get
into this situation, glider you need is ASK21 with flight instructor.

Continuing (I think) a slow drift from the original poster's question...

I guess I don't understand the point you seem to me to be supporting. When I
imagine the "50%-extended glidepath" height-vs.horizontal distance diagram, at
normal approach speed, of (say) an ASW-20 (w. 65-degree flap capability) and a
D2, it strongly suggests to me that the former ship will have a greater number
of theoretically available fields from which to safely choose, independent of
anything else...pilot skill, trees, wind shears, etc. It will also be capable
of actually touching down with less energy to dissipate.

I'm not bashing flapless gliders; simply trying to make the point that
gliders' *usable* landing capabilities, differ...with real-world practical
effects. I'm OK with agreeing to disagree.

Anecdotally speaking, my habit/landing-preference with large-deflection
landing-flap-equipped gliders is to fly landing patterns where the terminal
portion of the approach employs full flap deflection, because: it's fun, not
fundamentally difficult, *and* it's useful prep for outlanding in
approach-obstructed/short fields, and in that sense no different than choosing
to consistently fly/practice full-spoiler-opening approaches in spoiler-only
ships. To each their own...

YMMV.

Bob W.

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Sorta my point on a -20A.....get current in the spring, then do a local pattern "way high" full flaps, full dive brakes, roll the nose over....sheesh....
I have shoveled into small fields from a 1-26 and up.....sorta hard to beat a -20A in a very small field.
Yes, I have -24 and -28 off airport landings.
Circuit may not be the issue, crappy fields (yes, you didn't call it quits soon enough...) may NEED max decent rate.
Sorry, standard class would have a hard time compared to many flapped ships.
YMMV...

BTW, I "believe" while testing the -20A, pilot was on final at 1000' above landing spot....Hang everything out, roll nose beyond vertical, land on spot......no turns..,,didn't exceed any speed......try that in a non flapped ship.
No, I don't believe the -20B or C could do that.
I did once a year for practice since it may loosen bottom wing/flap seals.....so....a test....

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 12:02:57 PM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Sorta my point on a -20A.....get current in the spring, then do a local pattern "way high" full flaps, full dive brakes, roll the nose over....sheesh....
I have shoveled into small fields from a 1-26 and up.....sorta hard to beat a -20A in a very small field.
Yes, I have -24 and -28 off airport landings.
Circuit may not be the issue, crappy fields (yes, you didn't call it quits soon enough...) may NEED max decent rate.
Sorry, standard class would have a hard time compared to many flapped ships.
YMMV...

BTW, I "believe" while testing the -20A, pilot was on final at 1000' above landing spot....Hang everything out, roll nose beyond vertical, land on spot......no turns..,,didn't exceed any speed......try that in a non flapped ship.
No, I don't believe the -20B or C could do that.
I did once a year for practice since it may loosen bottom wing/flap seals......so....a test....

I owned a 20L model that had that same flap configuration. There was never any doubt about putting that thing down in some very difficult places. Alfonso, E9, and I would see just how short we could land. The bird was the best flying ship that I have ever owned. I wish my 27B had that same configuration.