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#11
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Jim Carter wrote:
Since circle to land is published for a fixed altitude, I am assured of obstacle clearance no matter which direction I turn. I just prefer to keep the old Mk1 eyeball on the target throughout the approach. Just don't miss the occasional note that prohibits circling on one side of some airports. |
#12
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Stan Prevost wrote:
I'm not sure why JAN approach was giving you landing instructions. Shouldn't that be left for the HKS tower, after approach control had sequenced you in for the approach? Not accoring to 7110.85P: 4-8-6. CIRCLING APPROACH a. Circling approach instructions may only be given for aircraft landing at airports with operational control towers. b. Include in the approach clearance instructions to circle to the runway in use if landing will be made on a runway other than that aligned with the direction of instrument approach. When the direction of the circling maneuver in relation to the airport/runway is required, state the direction (eight cardinal compass points) and specify a left or right base/downwind leg as appropriate. |
#13
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Thanks, I knew I should have looked it up first. I have never received
landing instructions other than from a tower, but I see why from the rule. I haven't had to circle to land at a towered field other than on a circling-only approach. Approach Control has given me approach clearance, but left the circling instructions to the tower. The rule is slightly amgiuous, seems to be written on the assumption that the approach from which circling will commence is aligned with a runway, and may or may not include circling-only approaches arriving at 90 degrees to any runway. I will assume that it was meant to include those approaches also. On further thought, maybe I lied. Several years ago, I flew an ILS into KORL with a strong tailwind, circle to land on another runway, at night when the other ILS was OTS. I don't remember the exact sequence of events, but I think Orlando Approach (KMCO) sequenced me in and cleared me for the ILS, told me to expect to circle to land on the other runway, but the tower actually handled the circling. That was a harrowing experience, with all the turbulence, and trying to circle over the city and find runway lights and to follow one or two other aircraft that couldn't be seen amongst the lights. We certainly had to circle more than 1.3 nm from the runways, but I can't remember the altitude. I'm pretty sure it was above circling minimum. "Sam Spade" wrote in message ... Stan Prevost wrote: I'm not sure why JAN approach was giving you landing instructions. Shouldn't that be left for the HKS tower, after approach control had sequenced you in for the approach? Not accoring to 7110.85P: 4-8-6. CIRCLING APPROACH a. Circling approach instructions may only be given for aircraft landing at airports with operational control towers. b. Include in the approach clearance instructions to circle to the runway in use if landing will be made on a runway other than that aligned with the direction of instrument approach. When the direction of the circling maneuver in relation to the airport/runway is required, state the direction (eight cardinal compass points) and specify a left or right base/downwind leg as appropriate. |
#14
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
On 12/22/06 21:06, A Lieberma wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote in : On 12/22/06 14:46, A Lieberma wrote: Was out doing approaches this morning to knock off the rust. Called into JAN approach and requested ILS approaches into HKS under visual rules. Was 5 miles outside Brenz final approach fix and received the clearance; Cleared for the ILS 16 approach or circle to land 34 Hawkins. As Sam said, I don't know why they would have said this. Presumably, the approach controller know whether you intended to terminate your approach with a missed approach or landing - is that true? I had requested an ILS approach after the approach when I received the clearance, so approach knew I wasn't doing a full stop. I would argue that ATC thought you *were* doing a full stop, otherwise they wouldn't tell you to circle. You either terminate with a missed approach or a landing. The missed approach doesn't include a 'circle to land'. When I've flown circle to land maneuvers at non-towered fields, I've descended to the standard TPA and joined the pattern (this assumes VMC, of course). Before I got my Garmin 430, all I could do was circle to land at my home airport KMBO. Even with my new addition, I request the VOR Alpha as it makes it real easy to join the pattern when VFR traffic in the mix. Allen -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#15
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
On 12/22/06 16:40, Jim Carter wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: A Lieberma ] Posted At: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:46 PM Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr Conversation: Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question? Subject: Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question? Was out doing approaches this morning to knock off the rust. Called into JAN approach and requested ILS approaches into HKS under visual rules. Was 5 miles outside Brenz final approach fix and received the clearance; Cleared for the ILS 16 approach or circle to land 34 Hawkins. Exactly what is expected for a circle to land? Should I jog over to the right of the runway on my descent and enter downwind? At what altitude? The airport terminal is immediately to the right as well as the tower. Winds were 290 at 8 knots under VMC. Allen Al, Since your question seems to be more about the mechanics of the process than the clearance terminology, my approach has always been to circle such that I can keep a visual on the landing zone. That typically means a left circle regardless of what the published traffic pattern might be. Since circle to land is published for a fixed altitude, I am Minimum altitude, not fixed, right? assured of obstacle clearance no matter which direction I turn. I just Actually, the IAP may prohibit circling to one side or the other. prefer to keep the old Mk1 eyeball on the target throughout the approach. Circle to land at minimums is a very exciting end to a journey and usually reminds me exactly how small my bladder happens to be. I need all the advantage I can get so the left turns help out. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#16
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
On 12/22/06 21:11, A Lieberma wrote:
"Jim Carter" wrote in news:001701c7262a$f464b0f0 $4b01a8c0@omnibook6100: Al, Since your question seems to be more about the mechanics of the process than the clearance terminology, my approach has always been to circle such that I can keep a visual on the landing zone. That typically means a left circle regardless of what the published traffic pattern might be. Since circle to land is published for a fixed altitude, I am assured of obstacle clearance no matter which direction I turn. I just prefer to keep the old Mk1 eyeball on the target throughout the approach. Circle to land at minimums is a very exciting end to a journey and usually reminds me exactly how small my bladder happens to be. I need all the advantage I can get so the left turns help out. Thanks Jim! Yes, when it's a long trip, anything to shorten the approach phase is always appreciated when "nature calls" *big smile*. I am used to circle to approach landings at my own airport, just never had one for opposite ends of the runway The circle to land is required anytime the landing runway is more than a set number of degrees from the approach course (I can't remember the exact number of degrees - maybe 10 or 30?). Obviously, the runway opposite to the approach course would qualify ;-) Allen -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#17
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
You either terminate with a missed approach or a landing. The missed
approach doesn't include a 'circle to land'. A clearance for a missed doesn't include a clearance for a circle, but one can certainly go missed after circling. Jose -- "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows what they are." - (mike). for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#18
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
In article ,
Jose wrote: You either terminate with a missed approach or a landing. The missed approach doesn't include a 'circle to land'. A clearance for a missed doesn't include a clearance for a circle, but one can certainly go missed after circling. Jose Just to be clear about this... Let's say the airport is using 34, and you're cleared by approach control for the ILS-16 circle to 34 in VFR conditions as a practice approach. It would be a very poor idea indeed for you to execute the circling maneuver, do a low approach, then decide to execute the published missed on your own. This would have you swimming upstream against the traffic on final for 34. If that's what you really want to do, make sure you verify your intentions with the tower. If there's no conflicting traffic, they should be able to let you do it, but that would be unusual. When I'm with a student, negotiating these sorts of things with ATC is part of my job. |
#19
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Mark Hansen wrote:
The circle to land is required anytime the landing runway is more than a set number of degrees from the approach course (I can't remember the exact number of degrees - maybe 10 or 30?). Obviously, the runway opposite to the approach course would qualify ;-) 30 degrees for ground based, 15 for RNAV. Also, descent gradient limitations, straight-has to be to TDZ; circling just to MDA. And, a third, less often an issue, are limitations on the electronic guidance's proximity to the runway centerline, extended. |
#20
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Stan Prevost Wrote: I'm not sure why JAN approach was giving you landing instructions. Shouldn't that be left for the HKS tower, after approach control had sequenced you in for the approach? Stan, Approach needs to inform you if you are circling to another runway in order for you to determine which minimums to use. It would probably be to late to plan a "circling" maneuver if you weren't informed until handed off to tower. -- ghogue Posted at www.flight.org |
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