ADIZ pilot's ticket revoked

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Franklin Newton" wrote in message
.net...
So all you learned folks think this guy is a real safety hazard to
folks,
dumber than a loon and deserves never to fly again.
Was he dumber or more hazardous than the whole crew who stuffed a L1011
into
the glades because of a lightbulb???

Apples and oranges.

Not taking basic skills along for the ride was a basic mistake.

Stuffing a L1011 was the usual accident chain of events, failing to be
broken, at a million opportunities. Not dumb. Unfortunate.
--
Jim in NC

You are right, it wasn't dumb it was idiotic.

"George Patterson" wrote
Franklin Newton wrote:
So all you learned folks think this guy is a real safety hazard to
folks,
dumber than a loon and deserves never to fly again.
Was he dumber or more hazardous than the whole crew who stuffed a L1011
into
the glades because of a lightbulb???

Yep. We *really* don't want to see what he could accomplish with an L1011.

Chuckle
--
Jim in NC

In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

snip

I check weather etc. elsewhere than finish with DUATS for a scan of
NOTAMS and PIREPS and to get my official square checked.

It may be up to the second and the most thorough but it's isn't
"Official"
as far as I know (hanger lawyers, what say??).

DUATS has been an official briefing for a few years now.

Site?

http://www.duats.com/faq.html

"When getting a briefing on DUATS, is this considered to be a legal
pre-flight briefing, with the same standing as a briefing I'd get by
calling Flight Service?

Yes. A DUATS route briefing contains the same elements as a route
briefing which is provided by an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded
by DUATS, and your receipt of the data can be proven, should the need
arise. (Of course, this requires you to sign on to DUATS using your own
DUATS Access Code or Personal Access code!) The DUAT service is paid for
by the FAA, and is certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live
Flight Service Specialist for pre-flight briefings."

Good enough for you?

Could you prove that you did anything more than just scan the data on
the
screen?

No more than you can prove you were listening when you called FS.


Which is why I print everything.

Which is totally, absolutely useless for legal purposes.

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow
wrote:

snip

I check weather etc. elsewhere than finish with DUATS for a scan
of
NOTAMS and PIREPS and to get my official square checked.

It may be up to the second and the most thorough but it's isn't
"Official"
as far as I know (hanger lawyers, what say??).

DUATS has been an official briefing for a few years now.

Site?

http://www.duats.com/faq.html

"When getting a briefing on DUATS, is this considered to be a legal
pre-flight briefing, with the same standing as a briefing I'd get by
calling Flight Service?

Yes. A DUATS route briefing contains the same elements as a route
briefing which is provided by an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded
by DUATS, and your receipt of the data can be proven, should the need
arise. (Of course, this requires you to sign on to DUATS using your own
DUATS Access Code or Personal Access code!) The DUAT service is paid for
by the FAA, and is certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live
Flight Service Specialist for pre-flight briefings."

Good enough for you?

Could you prove that you did anything more than just scan the data
on
the
screen?

No more than you can prove you were listening when you called FS.


Which is why I print everything.

Which is totally, absolutely useless for legal purposes.

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

Where is that documented?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

In rec.aviation.owning Dave Stadt wrote:

wrote in message
...

snip

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

Where is that documented?

Which part? That you need a briefing, that it has to be "official" or
that FS and DUATS are the only briefings that count?

91.103 says you need a briefing and contains the catch all of "all
available information concerning that flight" which to the FAA enforcers
means weather, NOTAMs, TFRs, etc.

AIM 5-1-1 says FS or DUATS.

There was a proposed AC to add other services; I don't know if it was
approved.

There have been articles on AOPA about the consequences of not using
the "official" sources; a search should find them.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Matt Barrow wrote:
Could you prove that you did anything more than just scan the data on the
screen?

No more than you can prove you were listening when you called FS.

Which is why I print everything.

It seems to me that creating a written record can't do anything but
harm, legally.

The FAA can't prove anything about your briefing if you keep no records.
If you do, it makes it easy for them to point out where it was
lacking. And if your briefing missed something vital, which would
probably be the case if you're being charged with "not having all
available information concerning that flight," how is a written record
of your missing it going to help?

Charles.
-N8385U

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Dave Stadt wrote:

wrote in message
...

snip

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

Where is that documented?

Which part? That you need a briefing, that it has to be "official" or
that FS and DUATS are the only briefings that count?

91.103 says you need a briefing and contains the catch all of "all
available information concerning that flight" which to the FAA enforcers
means weather, NOTAMs, TFRs, etc.

That's not what 91.103 says.

AIM 5-1-1 says FS or DUATS.

It suggests FSS or DUATS.

There was a proposed AC to add other services; I don't know if it was
approved.

I have seen FAA statements to that effect but only for part 91 flights.

Matt Barrow wrote:

Whoopie do!!

If I had a Model-T Ford, I could hand crank the engine! :~)

Do as you wish.

We are taught for the Oral exam that the only way you can prove you took off
into legal minimums for VFR flight is to obtain a weather briefing from the
FSS or DUATS.
It is only the FSS or DUATS weather report for that time that determines if
you are legally allowed to be flying based on your restrictions, whatever
they may be.
Your local tower or TV station might tell you the weather is one thing, but
if the FSS says it isn't you could be in violation.

I don't know what kind of documentation you are looking for, but I have been
told that I will be wrong if I don't answer the question with the FAA
examiner this way.
--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

-I can gather all the news I need
on the weather report-

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Dave Stadt wrote:

wrote in message
...

snip

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

Where is that documented?

Which part? That you need a briefing, that it has to be "official" or
that FS and DUATS are the only briefings that count?

91.103 says you need a briefing and contains the catch all of "all
available information concerning that flight" which to the FAA enforcers
means weather, NOTAMs, TFRs, etc.

That's not what 91.103 says.

AIM 5-1-1 says FS or DUATS.

It suggests FSS or DUATS.

There was a proposed AC to add other services; I don't know if it was
approved.

I have seen FAA statements to that effect but only for part 91 flights.

Both the written exam and the oral exam bear absolutely no resemblance to
anything in the real world. It is a rite of passage and damned little else
(both for pilots and mechanics).

Jim

I don't know what kind of documentation you are looking for, but I have
been told that I will be wrong if I don't answer the question with the FAA
examiner this way.