"Vanishing American Air Superiority"

Bill Kambic wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:25:43 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Mar 16, 5:05 pm, Jack Linthicum
wrote:
...
Getting the stuff off on a beach just might be the hardest part of the
trip.
If the U-boats were even twice as effective as on D-Day the RN would
have made glorious, bloody history.

jsw

People forget that the RN had subs in 1940, too. If the Kriegsmarine
had tried an invasion they would have been as subject to attack as the
Allies were in '44 and without any significant anti-submarine
capability.

Any German sea borne operation was at best a chimera. Or more likely
a way to fox Statlin into thinking, "all is well."


In the series "World At War" Galand said he was told Sea Lion was a
rd herring th throw Stalin off.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Paul J. Adam wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes
I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

Now that is funny. There is more military of that time in California
then anywhere else in the world.


I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

A determined Germany would have eaten England alive, but for massive
war materials and massive military direct aid. Hitler actually admired
England and did make an effort to make them an ally. Churchill double
crossed him when he usurped meeting with Rudolph Hess. That was a double
cross much more heinous as Hitlers double cross of Stalin. England and
Israel are 2 countries to never ever trust.

Andrew Swallow wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
{snip}


I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.
What saved England is Hitler didn't write up an invasion in Mein
Kampf, if he had a pencil and added footnotes, Brits would be
goose-stepping and the Scots would be wearing underwear.
Ken

A country can have a big army or a big navy but not both. (Britain
is still paying for the Napoleonic Wars when she tried having both.)
To invade Britain a country needs both. Germany had a big army but only
a medium sized navy. With war in France, Scandinavia and later USSR
Germany could not deploy a large number of troops against Britain for
long. Germany's air force was not significantly larger than Britain's
so it could not be used as an equaliser. The Empire gave Britain
a big advantage in man power and resources that could not be bombed.
Once the UK had chosen to fight a long war to even draw with Britain
Germany would have had to give up its plans to conquer eastern Europe.
There is no easy German victory there.

Andrew Swallow

You are dreaming. Very few War Historians believe that the English Lion
would not succumb in the event Germany had turned to England rather then
Russia.

Alexander wrote:
snip
A determined Germany would have eaten England alive, but for massive
war materials and massive military direct aid. Hitler actually admired
England and did make an effort to make them an ally. Churchill double
crossed him when he usurped meeting with Rudolph Hess. That was a double
cross much more heinous as Hitlers double cross of Stalin. England and
Israel are 2 countries to never ever trust.



Using that logic no country is trustworthy. Sticking to WW2 the
Nazi's violation of their nonaggression pact with the Soviets is a prime
example.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Mar 17, 6:54 pm, Dan wrote:
Bill Kambic wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:25:43 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Mar 16, 5:05 pm, Jack Linthicum
wrote:
...
Getting the stuff off on a beach just might be the hardest part of the
trip.
If the U-boats were even twice as effective as on D-Day the RN would
have made glorious, bloody history.

jsw

People forget that the RN had subs in 1940, too. If the Kriegsmarine
had tried an invasion they would have been as subject to attack as the
Allies were in '44 and without any significant anti-submarine
capability.

Any German sea borne operation was at best a chimera. Or more likely
a way to fox Statlin into thinking, "all is well."

In the series "World At War" Galand said he was told Sea Lion was a
rd herring th throw Stalin off.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I'd buy that. I think the plan was for the Nazi's to knock out Russia
then
sign an armistice with England...then came Moscow -
Stalingrad....oops.
Ken

"Alexander" wrote in message
...

A determined Germany would have eaten England alive, but for massive
war materials and massive military direct aid.

Well, assuming they could get there, which they couldn't...


Hitler actually admired
England and did make an effort to make them an ally.

But the UK (Not England) reckoned he wasn't to be trusted.

Wise people...

Churchill double
crossed him when he usurped meeting with Rudolph Hess.

I don't suppose you've any proof at all for that remarkable statement.

England and
Israel are 2 countries to never ever trust.

But, but, but, aren't they the same country run by the same people?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"Alexander" wrote in message
...

You are dreaming. Very few War Historians believe that the English Lion
would not succumb in the event Germany had turned to England rather then
Russia.

How do they get there to inflict this defeat?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
Bill Kambic wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:25:43 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Mar 16, 5:05 pm, Jack Linthicum
wrote:
...
Getting the stuff off on a beach just might be the hardest part of the
trip.
If the U-boats were even twice as effective as on D-Day the RN would
have made glorious, bloody history.

jsw

People forget that the RN had subs in 1940, too. If the Kriegsmarine
had tried an invasion they would have been as subject to attack as the
Allies were in '44 and without any significant anti-submarine
capability.

Any German sea borne operation was at best a chimera. Or more likely
a way to fox Statlin into thinking, "all is well."


In the series "World At War" Galand said he was told Sea Lion was a rd
herring th throw Stalin off.

Well he would say that wouldn't he.

His failure was the thing that stopped the whole project.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.
But what ****un good is the that Island to Hitlers greater scheme,
nothing, but we know now he made a strategic military error, and
as Chruchill promised his bombers burned the black heart of Germany,
that was very unpleasant to all who were involved.
I request a polite response, as I gave.
Ken

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.

My my, someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA.

That's about a dozen people below general officer rank.

Shouldn't be too hard to identify him.

That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

Have you considered reading a book?

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

Aren't we forgetting someone?

This being a naval group and all...

Oh yes, and assuming they do land. How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.