"Vanishing American Air Superiority"

"Alexander" wrote in message
...
Paul J. Adam wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes
I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace, race
the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare victory
while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and seventy for
"recreational services"?)

Now that is funny. There is more military of that time in California then
anywhere else in the world.


I suspect the combined Red Army and Wehrmacht forces in Russia
were rather more numerous than the US forces in California.


I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took the
line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

A determined Germany would have eaten England alive, but for massive
war materials and massive military direct aid. Hitler actually admired
England and did make an effort to make them an ally. Churchill double
crossed him when he usurped meeting with Rudolph Hess.

Well now given that Hitler denounced Hess on German radio BEFORE
Hess had chance to meet anyone this seems an odd conclusion.

That was a double
cross much more heinous as Hitlers double cross of Stalin. England and
Israel are 2 countries to never ever trust.

Churchill never wavered in his opposition to the Nazis, change your
medication
there's a good chap.

Keith

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.


Britain was not at war with Croatia.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.

Apart from those in the hands of the 11 infantry divisions and
2 armoured brigades deployed for home defense.

Those 2 or 3 rifles came in rather handy in defeating the large
Italian army that invaded Egypt


Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen cruisers
5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking turns
at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow
walking pace. Oops.


Keith

"William Black" wrote in message
...


The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

Aren't we forgetting someone?

This being a naval group and all...

Oh yes, and assuming they do land. How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?


As prisoners under escort on their way to a POW camp ?

After the few survivors wade ashore from the burning and
sinking barges I'd imagine surrender would seem a good option.


Keith

On Mar 18, 3:36*am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.

My my, *someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA.

That's about a dozen people below general officer rank.

Shouldn't be too hard to identify him.

That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.

But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

Have you considered reading a book?

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

Aren't we forgetting someone?

This being a naval group and all...

Oh yes, *and assuming they do land. *How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, *like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

It's just a larger river crossing.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:45:42 -0400, Bill Kambic
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:12:54 -0400, Peter Skelton
wrote:

Wouldn't it take a particularly stupid admiral to try and use subs as
an invasion barge escort?

rather

Also, while barges were a critical lift, there were also a fair number
of larger, coastal trade vessels that would have to be pressed into
service to carry the heavy stuff, including supplies of fuel. These
would have made fine targets for RN subs.

And land the stuff how?

Siezing appropriate channel ports undamged. Paratroopers, likely. Or
maybe some form of "commando" force.

That would be the plan. Execution of the plan might be problematical.

The U-Boat force would not be messing around with barges in the
Channel. They'd be setting up to intercept the Home Fleet as it came
south to "welcome" the invasion force.

The Home Fleet was not expected to do much against an invasion.
It would arrive after the destruction had been done.
ANti-invasion was small ship work.

No, not really. Anti-invasion work is work for whatever you have. If
Taffy Three had not shown hyper-aggressivness there would have been a
very painful demonstration of just how effective large ships can be in
an anti-invasion role.

WHat I said was that the invasion ofrces would have been long
sunk before the Home Fleet could arrive. Your reponse is to a
straw man.


Peter Skelton

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:16:58 -0500, Alexander
wrote:

Andrew Swallow wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
{snip}


I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.
What saved England is Hitler didn't write up an invasion in Mein
Kampf, if he had a pencil and added footnotes, Brits would be
goose-stepping and the Scots would be wearing underwear.
Ken

A country can have a big army or a big navy but not both. (Britain
is still paying for the Napoleonic Wars when she tried having both.)
To invade Britain a country needs both. Germany had a big army but only
a medium sized navy. With war in France, Scandinavia and later USSR
Germany could not deploy a large number of troops against Britain for
long. Germany's air force was not significantly larger than Britain's
so it could not be used as an equaliser. The Empire gave Britain
a big advantage in man power and resources that could not be bombed.
Once the UK had chosen to fight a long war to even draw with Britain
Germany would have had to give up its plans to conquer eastern Europe.
There is no easy German victory there.

Andrew Swallow

You are dreaming. Very few War Historians believe that the English Lion
would not succumb in the event Germany had turned to England rather then
Russia.

I would like a reference for that rather remarkable statement.


Peter Skelton

On Mar 18, 12:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.

My my, someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA.
That's about a dozen people below general officer rank.
Shouldn't be too hard to identify him.
That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.

Not sure about the "BIGOT" acronym, anyway he had a great job in
RCAF, as a "de-briefer". What that entailed was a bit complicated.
When RCAF personel returned from overseas he was allowed 1 week
to de-brief and calm them down enough to return them to civilian life.
He had to 'pump' them for information which I imagine a lot of men
were reluctant to relate, using cigarettes, booze and girls to get
them
chatty.
Funny he was highly qualified, before the war he was a gangster,
had a speak-easy in Winnipeg, and hustled booze and fish to
Chicago's Moran gang mainly, you know how kids are.

After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing
cabinet, probably still classified.
He had access to everything, as you can imagine, but the only
person he'd talk to about it was me, and only at the cottage we
built when we were alone, after drinking he'd loosen up a bit, but
he was always careful about what he said.
It was the analysis ability that he sifted for circulation that I
found
interesting.

But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

Have you considered reading a book?

Which book did you read?

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

Aren't we forgetting someone?
This being a naval group and all...

The RN was pretty much useless, recall Pearl Harbor, suppose the
Nazi's
float a bunch of cheap boats, the RN responds and the Luftwaff
would've put
a lot of iron in the channel.
Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty.

Oh yes, and assuming they do land. How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?

40 miles = 8 x 5, how long is a night?
(please don't tell me I need to prove math).

William Black

Regards
Ken

On Mar 18, 3:31*am, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...



On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

Britain was not at war with Croatia.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.

Apart from those in the hands of the 11 infantry divisions and
2 armoured brigades deployed for home defense.

Those 2 or 3 rifles came in rather handy in defeating the large
Italian army that invaded Egypt

Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen cruisers
5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking turns
at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow
walking pace. Oops.

Keith

What is ever more astounding is looking at photographs of Heer
manhandling German tanks out of the barges with planks and wood. Talk
about a turkey shoot on a beach head. Even assuming the barges would
survive the Channel chop.

The German Navy at this point in time was useless except for the U
Boat arm, and that would have been useless in an invasion.

On Mar 18, 1:47*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 18, 12:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.

My my, *someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA.
That's about a dozen people below general officer rank.
Shouldn't be too hard to identify him.
That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.

Not sure about the "BIGOT" acronym, anyway he had a great job in
RCAF, as a "de-briefer". What that entailed was a bit complicated.
When RCAF personel returned from overseas he was allowed 1 week
to de-brief and calm them down enough to return them to civilian life.
He had to 'pump' them for information which I imagine a lot of men
were reluctant to relate, using cigarettes, booze and girls to get
them
chatty.
Funny he was highly qualified, before the war he was a gangster,
had a speak-easy in Winnipeg, and hustled booze and fish to
Chicago's Moran gang mainly, you know how kids are.

After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing
cabinet, probably still classified.
He had access to everything, as you can imagine, but the only
person he'd talk to about it was me, and only at the cottage we
built when we were alone, after drinking he'd loosen up a bit, but
he was always careful about what he said.
It was the analysis ability that he sifted for circulation that I
found
interesting.

But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

Have you considered reading a book?

Which book did you read?

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

Aren't we forgetting someone?
This being a naval group and all...

The RN was pretty much useless, recall Pearl Harbor, suppose the
Nazi's
float a bunch of cheap boats, the RN responds and the Luftwaff
would've put
a lot of iron in the channel.
Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty.

Oh yes, *and assuming they do land. *How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?

40 miles = 8 x 5, how long is a night?
(please don't tell me I need to prove math).

William Black

Regards
Ken

Ken, you have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry. Go read a
book. You know there are books written on this subject.

On Mar 18, 12:30 pm, frank wrote:
On Mar 18, 1:47 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:



On Mar 18, 12:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.

My my, someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA.
That's about a dozen people below general officer rank.
Shouldn't be too hard to identify him.
That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.

Not sure about the "BIGOT" acronym, anyway he had a great job in
RCAF, as a "de-briefer". What that entailed was a bit complicated.
When RCAF personel returned from overseas he was allowed 1 week
to de-brief and calm them down enough to return them to civilian life.
He had to 'pump' them for information which I imagine a lot of men
were reluctant to relate, using cigarettes, booze and girls to get
them
chatty.
Funny he was highly qualified, before the war he was a gangster,
had a speak-easy in Winnipeg, and hustled booze and fish to
Chicago's Moran gang mainly, you know how kids are.

After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing
cabinet, probably still classified.
He had access to everything, as you can imagine, but the only
person he'd talk to about it was me, and only at the cottage we
built when we were alone, after drinking he'd loosen up a bit, but
he was always careful about what he said.
It was the analysis ability that he sifted for circulation that I
found
interesting.

But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

Have you considered reading a book?

Which book did you read?

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

Aren't we forgetting someone?
This being a naval group and all...

The RN was pretty much useless, recall Pearl Harbor, suppose the
Nazi's
float a bunch of cheap boats, the RN responds and the Luftwaff
would've put
a lot of iron in the channel.
Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty.

Oh yes, and assuming they do land. How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?

40 miles = 8 x 5, how long is a night?
(please don't tell me I need to prove math).

William Black

Regards
Ken

Ken, you have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry. Go read a
book. You know there are books written on this subject.

Well Frank, don't crap in your Depends Diaper, but you should know
books are written to be sold, you'd be far better off discussing war
with people who were actually involved in it, as you clearly have not
been, you have no clue about the problems.
It seems to be a habit of the US to dump it's vets on a tarmack and
tell them to go home, with zilch debriefing, and deal with
psychotrauma
on their own, following combat.
At least the WW2 RCAF had the class to get fella's talking and opening
up about their experiences and also LEARN from them, while at the same
time assisting psychotrauma reduction.
LOL, while Frank was reading comic books glorifying WW2, I was having
discussions with combat veterans.
Ken