"Vanishing American Air Superiority"

On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:34:03 +0000, William Black wrote:

Alexander wrote:


And here you sit in America. the country that took the P51 from a mere
thought to design and production in less then 90 days.

Contract NA-73X was laid in March 1940.

First combat use, by the RAF, (the aircraft was designed for the
British not the USAAF) was in May 1942.

They used an extant engine design...

I wonder where they got that from...

Uhm, no, they didn't.
What North American did have were the wind tunnel data and
design calculations for the Curtiss XP-46, Curtiss's idea for a P-40 successor,
which didn't work so very well.

What North American did do was start the rough designs of the NA-73 before
the Brits came around looking for a second source of P-40s.
--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:28:50 -0400, Bill Kambic wrote:

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:53:42 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote:

Look up "Mulberry"

I know what a "Mulberry" was. I also know that they were part of a
solution. What was the rest of it?

Gooseberry, and Pluto,
Pluto was probably the most important.
It's a lot better to send fuel by pipeline than in tankers
or as break-bulk in barrels.

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:55:17 -0400, Bill Kambic wrote:

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:34:42 -0500, Alexander
wrote:

If the ports are over run who refuels, rearms the ships that are now
toothless. Germany do a helluva a job resupplying their troops megamiles
away in Russia. That is until American Airpower mixed with what little
airpower England had left wiped out their supply lines. Germany was
basically starving to death from 1943 onward and yet damned near turned
the tide at the battle of the bulge. With out American logistics England
and Russia were flat ****ed! Get over it. You fools made bad decisions
and we bailed you out. Now we have made some bad economic decisions and
I doubt any of you will even stir to bail us out. Of course we will turn
this around on our own as we always have in the past.

How did the Allies supply themselves in Normandy without any operational
ports? Since the Germans would not have any operational ports, how
would they supply themselves?

Ah, but the Allies did have operational ports.
They just brought them with them.

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

On Mar 21, 12:19 am, Peter Stickney wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:28:50 -0400, Bill Kambic wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:53:42 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote:

Look up "Mulberry"

I know what a "Mulberry" was. I also know that they were part of a
solution. What was the rest of it?

Gooseberry, and Pluto,
Pluto was probably the most important.
It's a lot better to send fuel by pipeline than in tankers
or as break-bulk in barrels.

Let me get this straight.
The Nazi's build a pipeline to England for Sea Lion, then when the
Brits want to invade France they rent the pipeline from the Nazi's.
But Sunoco built and owns the pipeline and supplies oil to both
sides, so neither don't want to **** off Sunoco, so it's safe, and
nobody will bomb it.
I'll buy that, I think that is that SOP.
Ken

On Mar 21, 3:57*am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
...

Let me get this straight.
The Nazi's build a pipeline to England for Sea Lion, then when the
Brits want to invade France they rent the pipeline from the Nazi's.
But Sunoco built and owns the pipeline and supplies oil to both
sides, so neither don't want to **** off Sunoco, so it's safe, and
nobody will bomb it.
I'll buy that, I think that is that SOP.
Ken


I've heard of sleep walking but not sleep posting.

Dan wrote in :

Steve Hix wrote:
In article
,
BlackBeard wrote:

On Mar 20, 4:54 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 20, 6:17 pm, Jack Linthicum
wrote:

...
It's "burn before reading" for the important stuff
The one I disliked was "Burn While Reading".

I hated the "Shred, Ingest, Burn."

After which Rolaids only helped so much.

"These are your secret orders on where you are to go. Do not open
them until you get there.

An idea sometimes echoed in the manoeuvre arms: "Move NOW! Route: later.
Orders in five minutes."
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

On Mar 21, 8:08*am, Andrew Chaplin
wrote:
Dan wrote :
...

* *"These are your secret orders on where you are to go. Do not open
them until you get there.

An idea sometimes echoed in the manoeuvre arms: "Move NOW! Route: later.
Orders in five minutes."
--
Andrew Chaplin

In my experience the default destination in such cases was the mess
hall. At least that was the best place to find a newbie who had been
sent out to find a muffler bearing.

jsw

On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:10:35 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote:

Tell me again about how they were going to build these devices, get
them into position, move them accross the water, and then support the
troops they had in them? *All without opposition?

I think we are missing the point. There never was going to be a German
invasion if they did not continue on from Dunkirk right across the
channel and land as many men as they could get across. A sort of
reverse of Dynamo, although that doesn't sound too good either. It
probably wouldn't have been a success but it might have stirred the
British Parliament into some sort of truce or armistice.

Agreed on the "it's not going to happen."

I serious disagree on a Parliament genetated peace as they would have
seen the failure as clearly as everyone esle.

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 3:57 am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
...

Let me get this straight.
The Nazi's build a pipeline to England for Sea Lion, then when the
Brits want to invade France they rent the pipeline from the Nazi's.
But Sunoco built and owns the pipeline and supplies oil to both
sides, so neither don't want to **** off Sunoco, so it's safe, and
nobody will bomb it.
I'll buy that, I think that is that SOP.
Ken


I've heard of sleep walking but not sleep posting.

It's tucker, no one should ever accuse him of being conscious.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 20, 3:20 pm, William Black wrote:
Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Mar 20, 5:53 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 20, 12:04 pm, William Black
wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 20, 10:21 am, William Black
wrote:
It's not an acronym, it's a code word.
Well I missed that memo.
You're not kidding.
It's a habit, learning to not read unimportant junk, you know.
After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing
cabinet, probably still classified.
Oh no they won't be.
In canuckistan it's secret or once declassified it's burned, didn't
you
get the memo.
********.
It's filed away and released when of no interest to anyone but historians.
Nope, contrary to what Mr. Chaplin reports, it's burn after reading.
only the low level crap is available for his daddy, thoughts clear.
He don't know spooks, I'll provide a hint, from this link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_X
"Records pertaining to Camp X were either locked away under the
Official Secrets Act
or destroyed after World War II."
"locked away" or "destroyed", what does that mean?
Many commanders in chief weren't given ULTRA access.
Old Boy told me he was a corporal,
So he didn't actually have any access at all.
I presume said personel were ordered to provide full
cooperation, so he wouldn't need to give a rat's ass about ULTRA,
except how effective it was, to feedback into the chain of command,
his duties in that respect were more than clerical.
You mean he was an intelligence clerk.
That's close but not quite, he had girl's, booze and cigs to relax the
men in order to report what they learned
RCAF trained him for a year in Pathfinder Navigation prior to making
him a de-briefer
Not a chance.
Aircrew were all promoted to sergeant on selection.
Why would ya need to be sergeant for de-briefing?
Ya don't understood the de-briefer rank.
, and navigation involves a lot of secret stuff, so he
likely ended up knowing more about ULTRA than ULTRA did,
Take it from me, anyone selected for aircrew training wouldn't have
been allowed within a mile of ULTRA
where
results are concerned, and then write a synopsis for strategists,
based on de-briefing from fielded and experienced personel.
Corporals don't.
Well I guess them guys choose Corporal rank as it is a confidential,
nobody would tell an a officer squat, cuz they will rat ya out,
whereas a Corporal won't, SOP.
Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty.
And so easy to sink, especially at night.
But look at what you're risking, to sink a cheap barge.
Barges son, barges...
Now look up how good the Germans were at sinking ships with bombs at
that date.
As good or better than anyone.
Nope.
They had some real problems sinking anything. They could hit some stuff
standing still, but at Dunkirk, bombing stationary ships, their
performance was dreadful.
Well the Nazi's didn't expect the Brit's to run away so fast, so they
weren't prepared for that contingency, is that what you mean?
You don't know what the Military Canal is do you?
Mr. Black
Well we had lakefront property on Lk Ontario, the Englosh Channel is
what
the girls liked to swim across too.
The Military Canal is not the Channel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Military_Canal
It's not getting into it, it's getting out.
Mr. Black
Yup.
Ken
It's "burn before reading" for the important stuff
The whole 'Camp X' and 'William Stephenson' pages on Wikipedia are full
of ghastly errors.

Stuff like Churchill being an opposition MP in 1936 and SOE being part
of MI-6.

It reads like a bad novel.

No guff, "permanently bound to secrecy",

Rubbish.

The 'Station X' (Bletchley Park) staff wee sworn to perpetual secrecy.

The bloke that wrote the book that blew that one was a former head of
security...

No WWII stuff is still Secret. Some is considered private because it
involves people still alive, but that's about it.


the Old Boy was very
quiet when we visited Camp X.

Why?

No graves there.

And his background seems to indicate that he'd never served there.


We'd visit veterans grave yards too,
it's hardly stories that you share with children.

It is stories that have to be shared with children.



--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.