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Flying with Parachutes



 
 
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  #111  
Old February 14th 21, 04:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
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Posts: 257
Default Flying with Parachutes

After seeing Nadler's talk, I discussed a static line with my master rigger.. It seems there's no simple way to set up a static line for the chutes most of us use where the ripcord normally goes over the shoulder to the release. Static lines require a different routing.
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  #112  
Old February 14th 21, 04:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
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Posts: 63
Default Flying with Parachutes

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 10:19:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
After seeing Nadler's talk, I discussed a static line with my master rigger. It seems there's no simple way to set up a static line for the chutes most of us use where the ripcord normally goes over the shoulder to the release. Static lines require a different routing.

Can some Europeans weigh in here, I understand most of them run the static line direct to the ripcord handle. That is not how you would do military/old school skydiving static line systems but will work fine in a glider. Guessing your rigger is hung up on how student and military static line systems work. Ask a European glider pilot or call a glider manufacturer that puts the anchor hooks in and ask them how they expect it to be set up.
  #113  
Old February 14th 21, 05:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Posts: 653
Default Flying with Parachutes

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 10:42:51 AM UTC-5, Gregg Ballou wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 10:19:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
After seeing Nadler's talk, I discussed a static line with my master rigger. It seems there's no simple way to set up a static line for the chutes most of us use where the ripcord normally goes over the shoulder to the release. Static lines require a different routing.

Can some Europeans weigh in here, I understand most of them run the static line direct to the ripcord handle. That is not how you would do military/old school skydiving static line systems but will work fine in a glider. Guessing your rigger is hung up on how student and military static line systems work. Ask a European glider pilot or call a glider manufacturer that puts the anchor hooks in and ask them how they expect it to be set up.


I understand most of them run the static line direct to the ripcord handle.

NOOOOOOO - the static line does NOT attach to the D-Handle!!!
A static line chute has the static line stored within the container which deploys the main chute. The ones I am familiar with would have the canopy in a separate container. When the static line goes tight, that container stays at the end of the line until the risers are fully deployed. Then the canopy is released. It is an almost bulletproof way of getting the chute out and deployed without tangles. I have witnessed an instructor and student bail out of a L13 which lost a wing in mid-flight. Both made it out and down safely on their 26ft round static line chutes.

Uli
'AS'
  #114  
Old February 14th 21, 06:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Flying with Parachutes

In the older military ejection seats that I flew, the "zero delay
lanyard" connects the seat to the D-ring. The pilot connects and
disconnects it when passing through 10,000 feet. Connected below,
disconnected when above. With the lanyard connected, when the pilot
separates from the seat, the D-ring is pulled.

To do this in a glider, I would want a static line of considerable
length to ensure good separation from the glider. I wouldn't be too
concerned about the D-ring getting pulled when considering the alternative.

Dan
5J

On 2/14/21 9:44 AM, AS wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 10:42:51 AM UTC-5, Gregg Ballou wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 10:19:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
After seeing Nadler's talk, I discussed a static line with my master rigger. It seems there's no simple way to set up a static line for the chutes most of us use where the ripcord normally goes over the shoulder to the release. Static lines require a different routing.

Can some Europeans weigh in here, I understand most of them run the static line direct to the ripcord handle. That is not how you would do military/old school skydiving static line systems but will work fine in a glider. Guessing your rigger is hung up on how student and military static line systems work. Ask a European glider pilot or call a glider manufacturer that puts the anchor hooks in and ask them how they expect it to be set up.


I understand most of them run the static line direct to the ripcord handle.

NOOOOOOO - the static line does NOT attach to the D-Handle!!!
A static line chute has the static line stored within the container which deploys the main chute. The ones I am familiar with would have the canopy in a separate container. When the static line goes tight, that container stays at the end of the line until the risers are fully deployed. Then the canopy is released. It is an almost bulletproof way of getting the chute out and deployed without tangles. I have witnessed an instructor and student bail out of a L13 which lost a wing in mid-flight. Both made it out and down safely on their 26ft round static line chutes.

Uli
'AS'

  #115  
Old February 14th 21, 06:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default Flying with Parachutes

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:03:37 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

To do this in a glider, I would want a static line of considerable
length to ensure good separation from the glider. I wouldn't be too
concerned about the D-ring getting pulled when considering the
alternative.

I've flown a total of two flights with a static line, both at the
Waserkuppe. The first was a checkride in an ASK-21, the second was solo
in an ASK-23. It was a while back, but IIRC the static line was 5m long
and attached directly to the part of the parachute harness that contains
the canopy. An essential part of the pre-flight briefing was "after
landing, remember to take the chute off BEFORE walking away from the
glider".

I'd surprised if anybody recommended attaching the static line to the D-
ring because:

- the D-ring pull direction is almost directly opposite what you'd
expect from a static line

- there'd be a good chance getting the static line wound round your
neck as you exit the glider.

- the static line remains attached to the glider. From memory the clip
at the glider end is similar to that on a parachute harness.

--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #116  
Old February 14th 21, 07:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Flying with Parachutes

Well, what would you prefer when you're knocked unconscious during an
emergency exit, a static line connected to the D-ring, or nothing?

Personally, I don't worry about it. If I'm conscious, I'll pull the
D-ring, otherwise... But, how many deaths have occurred because a
glider pilot was knocked unconscious during an emergency egress?

Waiting for the customary "One death is too many" comeback...

Dan
5J

On 2/14/21 10:58 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:03:37 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

To do this in a glider, I would want a static line of considerable
length to ensure good separation from the glider. I wouldn't be too
concerned about the D-ring getting pulled when considering the
alternative.

I've flown a total of two flights with a static line, both at the
Waserkuppe. The first was a checkride in an ASK-21, the second was solo
in an ASK-23. It was a while back, but IIRC the static line was 5m long
and attached directly to the part of the parachute harness that contains
the canopy. An essential part of the pre-flight briefing was "after
landing, remember to take the chute off BEFORE walking away from the
glider".

I'd surprised if anybody recommended attaching the static line to the D-
ring because:

- the D-ring pull direction is almost directly opposite what you'd
expect from a static line

- there'd be a good chance getting the static line wound round your
neck as you exit the glider.

- the static line remains attached to the glider. From memory the clip
at the glider end is similar to that on a parachute harness.

  #117  
Old February 14th 21, 07:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default Flying with Parachutes

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:17:26 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Well, what would you prefer when you're knocked unconscious during an
emergency exit, a static line connected to the D-ring, or nothing?

Well, having flown with both but jumped with neither, a static line seems
like a reasonable idea provided its not tied to a D-ring on the chute.
Of course, the one time a static line is unlikely to work is when the
glider is diving vertically as opposed to spinning or gliding around
upside down because you *must* fall faster than the aircraft for the
static line to work. How common, if at all, is this type of crash unless
the glider is in a spiral dive or has jammed controls?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #118  
Old February 14th 21, 10:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Flying with Parachutes

Considering the parasite drag of the human body versus that of the
glider, I don't think separation is a big problem.

Dan
5J



On 2/14/21 11:50 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:17:26 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Well, what would you prefer when you're knocked unconscious during an
emergency exit, a static line connected to the D-ring, or nothing?

Well, having flown with both but jumped with neither, a static line seems
like a reasonable idea provided its not tied to a D-ring on the chute.
Of course, the one time a static line is unlikely to work is when the
glider is diving vertically as opposed to spinning or gliding around
upside down because you *must* fall faster than the aircraft for the
static line to work. How common, if at all, is this type of crash unless
the glider is in a spiral dive or has jammed controls?


  #119  
Old February 15th 21, 12:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Semantics Michael
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Posts: 32
Default Flying with Parachutes

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 3:20:35 PM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
But, how many deaths have occurred because a
glider pilot was knocked unconscious during an emergency egress?


....um, you're a bright guy so we'll assume you meant this as a funny. However, in Mr. Nadler's case as I recall he came real close and fortunately lived to tell his tail.
  #120  
Old February 16th 21, 11:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 1,439
Default Flying with Parachutes

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 3:54:00 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 3:20:35 PM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
But, how many deaths have occurred because a
glider pilot was knocked unconscious during an emergency egress?


...um, you're a bright guy so we'll assume you meant this as a funny. However, in Mr. Nadler's case as I recall he came real close and fortunately lived to tell his tail.


I think you mean he saved his tail so he could tell his tale.
 




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