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Flying with Parachutes



 
 
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  #81  
Old August 31st 18, 09:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 4:18:42 PM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
Is there any general consensus of which brand of parachute is better than others, or are they all about the same? Any thoughts regarding the MARS ATL-15 parachutes offered through wingsandwheels.com? They seem a little more affordable for a new chute.


They are all about the same. And haven't changed in 60 years hence the manufacturers desire for a life limit. If you are buying new get a square, just not worth spending that kind of money on new, really old, technology.
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  #82  
Old August 31st 18, 09:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:18:42 PM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
Is there any general consensus of which brand of parachute is better than others, or are they all about the same? Any thoughts regarding the MARS ATL-15 parachutes offered through wingsandwheels.com? They seem a little more affordable for a new chute.


You can't go wrong with a Strong! (yeah, corny, I know).

My Strong parachute is 25 years old. No problems getting it repacked, either by local riggers or by Strong. I alternate between taking my chute to the local guy and sending it to Strong for repack. Strong's customer service is first rate. They turn it around quick and have it back to me even faster than my local rigger. My next parachute will definitely be a Strong.

Oh, I also have a National that I picked up because it was a lighter then my Strong and cheap. I'm sure it's a good chute, but the harness system is kind of odd and uncomfortable and it lacks the padding of my Strong (that's why it's lighter).
  #83  
Old August 31st 18, 09:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Craig Reinholt
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:18:42 PM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
Is there any general consensus of which brand of parachute is better than others, or are they all about the same?


It would be best to talk to a master rigger that packs lots of round chutes of all brands. Many riggers don't pack round chutes regularly and are only casually knowledgeable about them. The master rigger can give you the pros and cons of each brand. Each has it's own peculiarities.
Craig
  #84  
Old August 31st 18, 10:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:50:31 PM UTC-7, Craig Reinholt wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 1:18:42 PM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
Is there any general consensus of which brand of parachute is better than others, or are they all about the same?


It would be best to talk to a master rigger that packs lots of round chutes of all brands. Many riggers don't pack round chutes regularly and are only casually knowledgeable about them. The master rigger can give you the pros and cons of each brand. Each has it's own peculiarities.
Craig


A lot of good info.
Agree that square chutes are the way to go. Some basic training should be done before use, a brief ground school at least. Your rigger may be able to provide this.
The basic price for National and Mars rigs seems to not have leg hardware you can release. I'd recommend "quick eject" hardware so you can get out if being dragged. This might make the price similar to others?
Perhaps the most comfortable rig I owned was ordered after taking the trailer to the manufacturer (Butler), pulling out the fuselage and sitting in the glider with a few different systems. When I sold that glider the buyers insisted on buying the chute, it was such a good fit.
Some parachute/harness/container combinations may just not fit you or the glider. You may not like the external pilot chute (Strong) or the position of the ripcord (Parachutes Australia) etc. My current (Paraphernalia) square rig is not the best in Schempp-Hirth gliders. Dan Marotta has my old one for the Nimbus (National).
Jim
  #85  
Old August 31st 18, 10:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:53:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
I'm hoping to find a softie with a square parachute.


From discussing this with both Don Mayer and the folks at Strong:
A square chute is much more sensitive in deployment (stable and
correct attitude). Both recommend a round emergency chute for
this reason. From discussing my recent bail-out with Don,
I'd probably be dead if I'd had a square chute.

FWIW, from a guy really happy to have had a Strong round emergency chute.

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

PS: I wish I'd had the larger diameter model, landing on rocks
at 11,000 density altitude my descent rate was a bit high...
  #86  
Old August 31st 18, 11:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 5:12:31 PM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:53:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
I'm hoping to find a softie with a square parachute.


From discussing this with both Don Mayer and the folks at Strong:
A square chute is much more sensitive in deployment (stable and
correct attitude). Both recommend a round emergency chute for
this reason. From discussing my recent bail-out with Don,
I'd probably be dead if I'd had a square chute.

FWIW, from a guy really happy to have had a Strong round emergency chute.

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

PS: I wish I'd had the larger diameter model, landing on rocks
at 11,000 density altitude my descent rate was a bit high...


That's one thing I disagree with Don about. Student skydivers have been deploying squares from every unstable body position possible for 30 years. And the darn things still open. Unstable deployments leading to malfunctions with squares is mostly old wives tale. Instead of asking old school riggers in the pilot rig business go to a dropzone and ask an instructor for an opinion. From the folks that toss the general public(with squares) out of airplanes for a living. Buying a new round parachute is the same as buying a new wood glider.
  #87  
Old September 1st 18, 02:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:16:59 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 5:12:31 PM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:53:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
I'm hoping to find a softie with a square parachute.


From discussing this with both Don Mayer and the folks at Strong:
A square chute is much more sensitive in deployment (stable and
correct attitude). Both recommend a round emergency chute for
this reason. From discussing my recent bail-out with Don,
I'd probably be dead if I'd had a square chute.

FWIW, from a guy really happy to have had a Strong round emergency chute.

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

PS: I wish I'd had the larger diameter model, landing on rocks
at 11,000 density altitude my descent rate was a bit high...


That's one thing I disagree with Don about. Student skydivers have been deploying squares from every unstable body position possible for 30 years. And the darn things still open. Unstable deployments leading to malfunctions with squares is mostly old wives tale. Instead of asking old school riggers in the pilot rig business go to a dropzone and ask an instructor for an opinion. From the folks that toss the general public(with squares) out of airplanes for a living. Buying a new round parachute is the same as buying a new wood glider.


The market for a wooden glider dried up half a century ago. There is still a vibrant market for round e-chutes, both in the US and Europe. Does not the US military use round chutes for aviators?
  #88  
Old September 1st 18, 02:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Default Flying with Parachutes

That's one thing I disagree with Don about....

Where I'm not personally expert,
I consult with multiple people who are,
and take their advice when it's consistent.

Are you as expert as Don, or the folks at Strong??
  #89  
Old September 1st 18, 02:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 9:11:27 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:16:59 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 5:12:31 PM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:53:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
I'm hoping to find a softie with a square parachute.

From discussing this with both Don Mayer and the folks at Strong:
A square chute is much more sensitive in deployment (stable and
correct attitude). Both recommend a round emergency chute for
this reason. From discussing my recent bail-out with Don,
I'd probably be dead if I'd had a square chute.

FWIW, from a guy really happy to have had a Strong round emergency chute.

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

PS: I wish I'd had the larger diameter model, landing on rocks
at 11,000 density altitude my descent rate was a bit high...


That's one thing I disagree with Don about. Student skydivers have been deploying squares from every unstable body position possible for 30 years.. And the darn things still open. Unstable deployments leading to malfunctions with squares is mostly old wives tale. Instead of asking old school riggers in the pilot rig business go to a dropzone and ask an instructor for an opinion. From the folks that toss the general public(with squares) out of airplanes for a living. Buying a new round parachute is the same as buying a new wood glider.


The market for a wooden glider dried up half a century ago. There is still a vibrant market for round e-chutes, both in the US and Europe. Does not the US military use round chutes for aviators?


Glider pilots at the Air Force Academy use squares. Ejection seats still have rounds I believe but that is probably because the R&D money on staging deployments from 0-1,000 mph has already been spent. Paratroopers really aren't being used anymore but if you think rounds are sound look up the percentage of young healthy paratroopers that they don't expect to be able to fight post jump.
  #90  
Old September 1st 18, 02:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Flying with Parachutes

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 9:18:13 PM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
That's one thing I disagree with Don about....


Where I'm not personally expert,
I consult with multiple people who are,
and take their advice when it's consistent.

Are you as expert as Don, or the folks at Strong??


I have a few thousand jumps was a skydiving instructor(AFF and Tandem) and am a CFI(helicopters and gliders.) Started jumping when there were still some round reserves in use, I've seen enough to know I don't want to use a round. Perfectly fine with jumping a square. And I've taught enough people in both disciplines to believe glider pilots can manage a square parachute.. Student skydivers, with all of the performance limitations imposed by fear, manage square parachutes after half a day of training. I'm not in the parachute business I promote squares because I believe they are safer for us. Next time you are at Pepperell walk over to the jumpschool and talk to some instructors, ask their opinion.
 




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