Physics question

Several people, most of whom have at least had physics, and at least one
with a degree in physics have stated that you are wrong and why. Suggest
you read the thread before you post.

Jim



"BRO" wrote in message
...




With the correct lead the bullet and the ME-109 colide, at which point the
tragectory of the bullet is drasticaly altered such that it, and teh
ME-109 all fall/fly to earth as one mass.

In article .com,
wrote:

Quick question: what does a plane have that a bullet lacks?


Answer: an engine to maintain its speed.


Bullets start slowing down the moment they leave the muzzle (alright,
just slightly *after* they leave the muzzle), while the aircraft that
fired them can maintain its speed.

But in this case there is no air friction to "slow" the bullet.
It leaves the gun into still air, and so if the bomber is accelerated a
bit by the gun's recoil, its muzzle velocity is a bit less than the
airplane's velocity and so will move "forward" a little as it falls.


Dan

Read the question I answered...

A related question: Haven't there been cases of supersonic
fighters shooting themselves down when they caught up to the shells
they'd fired forward?

Dan

I was hoping someone would answer that. I recall seeing/hearing/reading
somewhat the same thing back when. Best I can recall it involved an
F-86 or equivalent (not supersonic) and happened by firing and then
going into a dive thus flying into the bullet stream. Are 50 cal
bullets supersonic?
If so, the plane would also have to be.


--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

"John" wrote

There are laws against coersion I'd have my lawyer suit for enough for you
to take over the airport for payment! ;-)
John
I put developers in the same catagory as doctors (especially FAA!) and
lawyers.

I'm with you, on that. He should be able to get a lawyer to take the case,
for a percentage of the settlement, and still clean up, and get to keep the
airport.

I would sue each of the members of the council, and the one who delivered
the threat, and whoever ordered the threat given, and the town as a whole,
and the developer.

Don't go quietly on this on, Todd. You can win this one, hands down. You
will find plenty of support for you, too, I'll bet. Oh, and call AOPA, and
get them involved. I'll bet they would be salivating, to get ahold of this!
--
Jim in NC

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote

The AOPA was at the town meeting where I stood up and said
we'd all been threatened. So far three pilots have been
ejected. I think the stink has stopped the process, but the
pilots have agreed to all stand up and oppose the developer
next meeting.

Good.

The more I think about this, the more ****ed (and I don't mean intoxicated)
I get.

In case it isn't possible to do things the nice way in the end, document,
document, document.

If they are still refusing you tow, I would fly in, ask for a tow, and if
refused, as for the refuser to sign a statement, or even better, wear a tape
recorder.

Be prepared to have things go badly. Assume they will. Be happy if they
don't. Did I say document, document, document? g
--
Jim in NC

"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote in message news:MjOTe.9806$dm.4606@lakeread03...
Blueskies wrote:

But just imagine, as the bullet falls to earth, it will remain horizontal for a while due to the gyroscopic spin
caused by the rifling...


No, the bullet will start dropping due to gravity immediately upon exiting the muzzle.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Exactly, but in a horizonal attitude...assuming the gun was fired straight back...

"Rich S." wrote in message ...
There is a (magic) B-17 flying along at 560 mph. The tail gunner is out of .50 caliber ammo. He sees a Messerschmitt
ME-109 crossing behind the B-17, 50 yards away.

He pulls out his trusty .45 Colt auto (muzzle velocity 820 fps) and fires at the Hun when the ME-109 is directly
behind the B-17. He leads the Messerschmitt by exactly enough to hit the pilot (if he were firing from a fixed
position).

Does the bullet exit the muzzle and fall directly to earth?

Rich "Scratching my head" S.


OK, more questions. What was the muzzle velocity of the .50 machine guns used as tail guns? What kind of gun was
installed in the stinger on a B-58?

Blueskies wrote:

"Rich S." wrote in message ...

There is a (magic) B-17 flying along at 560 mph. The tail gunner is out of .50 caliber ammo. He sees a Messerschmitt
ME-109 crossing behind the B-17, 50 yards away.

He pulls out his trusty .45 Colt auto (muzzle velocity 820 fps) and fires at the Hun when the ME-109 is directly
behind the B-17. He leads the Messerschmitt by exactly enough to hit the pilot (if he were firing from a fixed
position).

Does the bullet exit the muzzle and fall directly to earth?

Rich "Scratching my head" S.



OK, more questions. What was the muzzle velocity of the .50 machine guns used as tail guns? What kind of gun was
installed in the stinger on a B-58?


I don't recall the actual velocity of the 50, but it was supersonic.
The B-58 tail gun was the M-61A1 20mm cannon.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

" Blueskies" wrote in message
...

OK, more questions. What was the muzzle velocity of the .50 machine guns
used as tail guns?

Try 2912 fps or 1747 knots. Real B-17's cruised about 145 knots from the IP
to the drop point, IIRC.

This means the bullet, fired directly aft, will still have a ground speed of
1602 knots.

Rich S.

"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote in message news:hWBUe.10909$dm.6874@lakeread03...
Blueskies wrote:

"Rich S." wrote in message ...

There is a (magic) B-17 flying along at 560 mph. The tail gunner is out of .50 caliber ammo. He sees a Messerschmitt
ME-109 crossing behind the B-17, 50 yards away.

He pulls out his trusty .45 Colt auto (muzzle velocity 820 fps) and fires at the Hun when the ME-109 is directly
behind the B-17. He leads the Messerschmitt by exactly enough to hit the pilot (if he were firing from a fixed
position).

Does the bullet exit the muzzle and fall directly to earth?

Rich "Scratching my head" S.



OK, more questions. What was the muzzle velocity of the .50 machine guns used as tail guns? What kind of gun was
installed in the stinger on a B-58?
I don't recall the actual velocity of the 50, but it was supersonic.
The B-58 tail gun was the M-61A1 20mm cannon.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


The B-58 was mach 1.6 or so, right? Any idea what the muzzle velocity is for the M-61A1? I read somewhere that the radar
for the gun tracked targets in a 30° cone behind the plane...

Rich S. wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

You also stated multiple versions with different
circumstances, not just different wording. It is not clear
that you realize that.

I did phrase the question poorly. I have said that *several* times and
attempted to clarify the wording - not change the intent of the original
question.

Now that that's over, I still find that it is an interesting problem in
relativity and deserved rational discussion.


Ah, if you want a problem in relativity, have the gunner shine a
flashlight on the Me-109.

This was interesting and a lot of fun. It's fun to consider
alternatives.

--

FF