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#11
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
On Nov 13, 7:54*am, Andy wrote:
Not sure of the point of your reply. *You do not contest the conclusion that FAA regards earning flight time as "compensation" and that was the OP's question. The question you answer is whether that compensation is currently allowed for a private rated tow pilot, and clearly it is. Andy The OP didn't ask a question. My response was a feeble response attempting to clarify his observation. |
#12
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
On Nov 13, 7:03*am, 150flivver wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:54*am, Andy wrote: Not sure of the point of your reply. *You do not contest the conclusion that FAA regards earning flight time as "compensation" and that was the OP's question. The question you answer is whether that compensation is currently allowed for a private rated tow pilot, and clearly it is. Andy The OP didn't ask a question. *My response was a feeble response attempting to clarify his observation. You are right, sorry. The question was asked by the second poster "So let me get this straight. Logging flight time IS considered by the FAA as a form of compensation? Please tell me I got that wrong." Andy |
#13
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
On Nov 13, 10:23*am, Andy wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:03*am, 150flivver wrote: On Nov 13, 7:54*am, Andy wrote: Not sure of the point of your reply. *You do not contest the conclusion that FAA regards earning flight time as "compensation" and that was the OP's question. The question you answer is whether that compensation is currently allowed for a private rated tow pilot, and clearly it is. Andy The OP didn't ask a question. *My response was a feeble response attempting to clarify his observation. You are right, sorry. *The question was asked by the second poster "So let me get this straight. Logging flight time IS considered by the FAA as a form of compensation? Please tell me I got that wrong." Andy No, you didn't get that wrong. If you agreed to fly my aircraft to the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip. There is no exception to the rules governing receiving compensation for doing favors like there is for towing gliders. |
#14
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
Thanks, Phil.
Believe that's the first time I've seen an RAS posting out of the head office, and appreciate the input. The next big US contest (Seniors) is a few months off, so there's time to discover what the insurance company has to say. Apologies to Harris Hill, Jim On Nov 12, 6:19*pm, Phil Umphres wrote: ..... Bottom line: nothing bad has happened and possibly something really good. *But we are still sorting it out and it is all a bit premature to be talking about what this means. *We will publish something on this in Soaring magazine and on the SSA website when we get a clearer picture of how the FAA and the insurance situations all fit together. Phil Umphres, Chairman, The Soaring Society of America, Inc. |
#15
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
On Nov 14, 6:03*am, 150flivver wrote:
No, you didn't get that wrong. *If you agreed to fly my aircraft to the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip. No, that's not true. You just can't count the time towards a higher rating. |
#16
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
On Nov 14, 2:53*am, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:03*am, 150flivver wrote: No, you didn't get that wrong. *If you agreed to fly my aircraft to the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip. No, that's not true. You just can't count the time towards a higher rating. So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers or do anything that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft (not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid cash or use the time towards a higher rating? I think not. Show me where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't log it or use it for a higher rating in the future. |
#17
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
"150flivver" wrote So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers or do anything that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft (not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid cash or use the time towards a higher rating? I think not. Show me where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't log it or use it for a higher rating in the future. Show us where it is prohibited. -- Jim in NC |
#18
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
On 11-14-2010 13:50, 150flivver wrote:
On Nov 14, 2:53 am, Bruce wrote: On Nov 14, 6:03 am, wrote: No, you didn't get that wrong. If you agreed to fly my aircraft to the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip. No, that's not true. You just can't count the time towards a higher rating. So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers No, but you CAN "split expenses" as a private pilot when giving "rides". From the FAA website: (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft. (b) Not applicable to this discussion (c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees. Nowhere does the FAA mention if the plane is someone else's aircraft, etc. that it constitutes "commercial activity". or do anything that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft (not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid cash or use the time towards a higher rating? I think not. Show me where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't log it or use it for a higher rating in the future. |
#19
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
On Nov 14, 8:16*am, "Morgans" wrote:
"150flivver" wrote So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers or do anything that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft (not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid cash or use the time towards a higher rating? *I think not. *Show me where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't log it or *use it for a higher rating in the future. Show us where it is prohibited. -- Jim in NC Read 61.113 in its entirety. Here's an extract: "(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft." There's no "unless the private pilot doesn't log it or use it for higher rating experience requirements" verbiage in this paragraph. The FAA has defined compensation to include free flight time in rulings handed down in enforcement actions which have been upheld by administrative/judicial reviews and in letters published by the FAA Chief Counsel. Now, where is your proof that it is permitted? |
#20
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USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation
On Nov 14, 8:27*am, Scott wrote:
On 11-14-2010 13:50, 150flivver wrote: On Nov 14, 2:53 am, Bruce *wrote: On Nov 14, 6:03 am, *wrote: No, you didn't get that wrong. *If you agreed to fly my aircraft to the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip. No, that's not true. You just can't count the time towards a higher rating. So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers No, but you CAN "split expenses" as a private pilot when giving "rides". * From the FAA website: * (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft. (b) Not applicable to this discussion (c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees. Nowhere does the FAA mention if the plane is someone else's aircraft, etc. that it constitutes "commercial activity". * or do anything that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft (not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid cash or use the time towards a higher rating? *I think not. *Show me where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't log it or *use it for a higher rating in the future. |
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