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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
We are planning a Glider Aerobatics Workshop at Williams Gliderport!
Target date is Sunday, February 21. Plan on 8:30 start with 1.5 hour of video and introduction to glider aerobatics and judging. Followed with dual flights in ASK-21. Participants pay for aircraft time (0.3hr), tow (4,000 to 5,000), and instructor time while flying. While people are flying, those on the ground get to be aerobatic judges. After flying we will get together to review the day and see if there is interest in another event. Hope to be all done by 2:00pm. This is for a basic introduction to aerobatics. In the ASK-21 we are talking about speed control, up-lines, down-lines, loops, rolls, and inverted flight. The ASK-21 does not spin. For more information contact: Guy Acheson |
#2
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
The "-21 "does not spin"???? I must have been hallucinating in the dozens I have done in them. You might want to read the exhaustive and definitive USAF Test Pilot School Report on the subject as well - written after someone at the USAF Academy spun one into the ground. |
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:37:15 +0100, John Smith wrote:
The ASK21 does spin when the CofG ist aft of 400mm. But any halfways normally grown pilot will put the CofG too much forward. That is just an urban myth. I've spun ours two up with normal CG position. No tail collar, no fancy rear weights, nothing added. I was in front (70kg) and the instructor weighed a little more, 80kg maybe. The instructor showed me the technique and then I spun it a couple of times to make sure I could do it too. Granted it doesn't spin easily, but it can be spun in normal trim with two pilots of medium weight or less. Spinning it is much easier than provoking a right-hand spin from a G.103A -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#5
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
Martin Gregorie wrote:
That is just an urban myth. I've spun ours two up with normal CG position. The manual is often misunderstood in this point. It states that with a CofG of less than 315mm (=12.4 in) the ASK21 wold not spin at all under any circumstance. With a CofG more aft it *may* be possible to make it spin, however this depends a lot on the total mass, the mass distribution and the spin entry technique, which can be tricky. (Exact speed, nose not too high or too low, help with ailerons...) This can be achieved without tail ballast. But only with a CofG aft of 400mm (=15.75in) the spin can be reliably provoked with the standard method and the resulting spins are reliably sustained, and this CofG cannot be achieved without tail ballast. Hence the tail ballast for training. The already mentioned report by the USAF (AFFTC-TR-89-27) states the same. So with a CofG between 315 and 400 mm you are not "safe" of spins, but the ASK is not suited for basic spin training either. |
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
On Dec 19, 12:11*pm, Guy wrote:
We are planning a Glider Aerobatics Workshop at Williams Gliderport! Target date is Sunday, February 21. Plan on 8:30 start with 1.5 hour of video and introduction to glider aerobatics and judging. What a great class! Sure would like to see one on the east ( or north ) coast ! Make sure you invite the media - this would be a positive attention getter for your operation and Soaring in general. |
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 15:48:58 +0100, John Smith wrote:
but the ASK is not suited for basic spin training either. I'd agree that its probably too hard to spin for spin training. Doing spin training in a very spin-resistant glider or needing to add a tail weight both can give the wrong impression to a student. However, that's not the same as saying it won't spin without a tail weight. As I said, I've done it and AFAIK that particular glider hadn't had any rear end damage that would have moved the CG back. We don't own any tail weights: why would we when we have a Puchacz? Similar suitability remarks apply to the G.103A. We used to have an instructor who could reliably spin it left but not right but he no longer instructs. I'm told that the G.103C (Acro III if you prefer) spins well in both directions but I haven't tried since our club doesn't have one. The only real answer is to have a trainer that does spin well or access to one. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#8
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
Martin Gregorie wrote:
I'd agree that its probably too hard to spin for spin training. And that is exactly what this thread has been all about: We are planning a Glider Aerobatics Workshop at Williams Gliderport! .... This is for a basic introduction to aerobatics. BTW, I did my primary aerobatics training in an ASK21 with tail ballast. It spins wonderfully, and it was a very good exercise to calculate the tail ballast, mount it and then having to believe my own calculation. |
#9
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
Ok Boys and GIrls,
Good response to the proposed glider aerobatics workshop. For those who care, we are working on adjusting the CG on the ASK-21s to facilitate spinning. The workshop will be Sunday, February 21. We plan to start at 8:30. Williams has motels. Williams has some good places to eat. Two towplanes are available so you could spend Saturday practicing to impress your friends on Sunday. If you would like to attend, please let me know via this forum. As we get closer to the date, and as people commit, I will post options for meals and such. I know there are a bunch of acro junkies and acro wannabees out there. Here is a welcoming place to satisfy those desires. Guy Acheson SZD-59 "59" |
#10
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Glider Aerobatic Workshop, Williams California
If you would like to attend, please let me know via this forum.
Are there any prerequisites? Or, to phrase it differently, would a freshly minted private pilot (who happens to enjoy spinning and would love to learn how to fly loops) benefit from attending the workshop? Bart |
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