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#1
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Very well stated Sir. I could distill it down to its simplest terms:
The Demos (lead by Kerry) are running towards socialism while the Repubs (lead by Bush) are jogging towards the same ultimate destination. |
#2
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#3
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#4
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:56:53 -0600, Ed Rasimus
wrote: Qualifying after UPT in an operational single-seat jet takes, on average another eight to ten months and then becoming operationally ready takes another six months. That seems to be about right in prexy's case. Bush was on full-time duty ("active duty for training") from November 1968 to November 1969. Back at Ellington, he remained on full-time duty until June 1970, when he graduated from Combat Crew Training School. Altogether, about 21 months full-time service, after which he became a weekend warrior. It's a bit sad that the left has to smear his service, which of course few of them would admit was worth doing in any event! (Most of my friends wouldn't go within spitting distance of a military man until in desperation they signed on with the Wesley Clark campaign. Suddenly, getting a hero was the most important qualifcation for a Democratic primary.) Even the redoubtable Michael Moore hasn't bothered to retread this tired old lie. More at www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org |
#5
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Ed Rasimus wrote:
"No, asshole. The biggest ego blast in the world is walking away from the jet, sweat-soaked and drained, looking back at the bird and saying, '**** you. You could have killed me, but you didn't.' And, knowing that you do something every day that most other humans don't even begin to conceive of. and: "Those square-ass Gulfstream and Lear crews" aren't even part of the equation. And _that_ is the truth! Jack |
#6
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One, Bush learned to fly in the military at government expense, did not complete his assigned commitment, and flew, if I understand , fourteen months after UPT I'm glad you put in the qualification, because clearly you don't understand. Bush learned to fly in a bit more than a year of full-time service, 1968-69, was an active duty pilot until his unit transitioned to a different aircraft in 1972, and fulfilled his military obligation in every respect, serving six and one-half years in total, or somewhat more than two years of active duty for training, as it is termed. www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org |
#8
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Sam Byrams wrote:
I know what the statistics are, and I don't care. I suspect Bush Jr's motives were the same booze, pussy and kerosene! As a former fighter pilot (or "pilot who flew fighters", compared to guys like Ed, et al) I wish to disassociate myself from that remark. It was JP-4, Pussy, and booze -- in that order and with appropriate nomenclature and capitalization, please. Jack |
#9
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In '68 (not '72) public sentiment was divided.
Probably: by '72 it wasn't. You had a few hardasses and Birchers and whatnot and everyone else was for getting out. I grew up in a middle-sized town and one that was overwhelmingly 'AuH2064':yet even the rednecks had serious questions by '72. Men in uniform-and even then, although it was understood they were noncombatants, the occasional female-were certainly not disrespectfully treated, but it was expressed that we hoped the war would be over shortly -either way. Bush got his training slot when production for UPT was as high as it had been historically since WW II. UPT was expanding from eight to eleven bases and capacity at each site was increased. We were up to more than 5000 per year input to UPT from all sources. (I was director of ATC Student Officer Rated Assignments from 1970 to April 1972 and managing the program.) My Presidential vote isn't going to count anyway since my state is not remotely up for grabs and it's a winner-take-all state. Since 48 out of 50 states are "winner-take-all" Electoral College votes, your reasoning should get everyone to give up voting. It would seem to this political scientist (BS, MPS, MSIR) that the closeness of the last election in so many states would indicate that the value of every citizen's vote is critically important. Ours wasn't close. And this one will unquestionably be farther apart-Kerry will do worse than Gore. They both suck. If I voted on pure principle I couldn't even vote Libertarian-although they're closer. Kerry might really screw things up so bad people would have to pull their heads out and in the long run, like a dope bust,it might be beneficial for an addict. If you can't differentiate between the basic ideological positions of the two parties, you shouldn't vote. Good choice. I am aware of what their platforms say. I concede some may consider them fundamentally different. I consider them basically similar in that they both seek to encode their politicoreligious notions in the law. In one case it's a recognized religion, the other is an implicit one. In practice, they differ only by amount, not by real principle. Dr. Joe Bagadonutz, the wealthy proctologist buys a Mustang or even a MiG-17 and successfully takes off and lands. He isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, a fighter pilot. He isn't really, even that lesser level, a pilot who flies fighters. He's simply an accident waiting to happen. He's equally likely to kill himself in a Bonanza for that matter. The initial post was about flying "fighters". Yes, Bonanzas are notorious for applying the principles of Darwin to doctors. Actually some doctors are pretty good, even excellent, aviators. Several aerobatic champions have been doctors. Same with other professions. It is possible to become an excellent stick and rudder pilot through civilian training if you have the time, money, and drive. About the only thing you won't be able to learn as a civilian is weapons delivery. The phrase far predates that book. It was the grinder call in the 50s era USAF and I can remember my uncle-who went through the air cadet program in the 50s-talking about it. Hated the culture of USAF where Fighter Pilots were gods-he was a C-133/C-130 pilot who dropped dead six weeks after retiring from TWA at 60 as a four striper. With all due respect to your uncle, we never won a war by hauling more trash than the enemy. Trash haulers help, but only because they provide the warriors at the pointy end of the spear with the bombs, beans and bullets to kill the enemy. He was no fighter pilot, but he was a good guy and he's missed. He'd planned to get involved in the EAA Young Eagles program and had signed up for a soaring rating when he dropped dead-not a heart attack per se but an electrochemical heart problem. The ambulance got there five minutes too late but the doctors said he might have been brain-impaired anyway, so "maybe it was for the best." Haven't seen Mason't book, but if he thinks the "Tiger" attitude got replaced by something less, he's sadly mistaken. Warriors are professionals, but they'd better have a healthy dose of attitude. Mason's book-wriitten for young adults (young male adults-it was fifteen years before females wore USAF wings)-portrays the USAF air cadet programs as basically unalloyed aggressiveness designed to crank out winning fighter jocks-at the expense of a certain casualty rate, and notwithstanding that most grads went to tankers, transports, bombers, helos, or ocasionally directly to IP school. As I remember the big change_according to Mason_ was that flight training "later on" took in people who were already officers, not needing the boot camp mentality, and was vastly less tolerant of accidents. Also the T-38 Talon was a big challenge for people whose total experience consisted of under 200 hours in the T-37. This agrees with accounts of flight training by many other writers, including Richard Bach and several of the early astronauts, who went through 50s era USAF flight training. Bottom line as far as politics- I personally don't like Bush, right or wrong, and I can't support a Kennedy, which Kerry as well may be, nor would I vote for someone that liberal even if he is an active pilot. (In general I tend to prefer Reps to Dems, provided they are not so fundamentalist they can't separate church from state.) I don't agreee with everything John McCain says but I'd work for his election over Kerry. Voting third party expresses my dissatisfaction, and if it clearly throws the election either way so much the better. |
#10
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I believe that is the first time I have heard of the F-102 as a "safe
aircraft"! Were they really? Compared to flying F-105's to Route Package Six, they were very safe when compared to flying an F-102 over Houston. Walt |
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