Katrina fall-out

JH Why the hell were they there?

Ah, finally we see an example of "conservative compassion."

???

Let's see, Jim Cantori (Sp?) on the Weather Channel told 'em...

Their State Governments told 'em....

CNN told 'em...

Fox News told 'em...

How many people have to tell these dumb asses to GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE
when there is a Level 5 hurricane bearing down on them, before they actually
listen?

They're there because they're there. No fricking place is safe,
Jay. Next time some huge blizzard shuts down the mid-west for days or
weeks I'll remember your answer. Next time a tornado rips through
I'll ask, "why the hell were you living there?"

Blizzards are fairly commonplace here, and no reason to fear. If anything,
they're kinda fun.

Unfortunately, tornados are tiny, and cannot be forecast with any degree of
accuracy. They're like meteorites -- highly destructive, and totally
unpredictable.

Bottom line: If I could sit here in Iowa, watching on TV as this big ol' bag
of Katrina whoop-ass bore inexorably down on the Gulf Coast, why couldn't
the people who actually LIVE THERE do the same thing?

I would have been in my plane/van/car/whatever, aimed north...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

I would have been in my plane/van/car/whatever, aimed north...

Right. Like the guy with one leg that had to be carried for blocks to get into
the Superdome. How far north you reckon he would've gotten?

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Jay Honeck wrote:
JH Why the hell were they there?


How many people have to tell these dumb asses to GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE
when there is a Level 5 hurricane bearing down on them, before they actually
listen?


Bottom line: If I could sit here in Iowa, watching on TV as this big ol' bag
of Katrina whoop-ass bore inexorably down on the Gulf Coast, why couldn't
the people who actually LIVE THERE do the same thing?

I would have been in my plane/van/car/whatever, aimed north...

You are making several assumptions here that are not completely
justifiable. The first is that these people did not listen to the
warnings. There's a difference between wanting to get out of Dodge,
and being able to do so. This is also reflected in the assumption
indicated by your last statement - the assumption that these people
had a "plane/van/car/whatever" that they could take north. For a lot
of people in the city, the best they can afford is the public bus or
streetcar system.

And where are they going to go, even if they could go somewhere.
New Orleans is one of those places where you're a newcomer if your
family only goes back five generations, and where a relative is
"distant" because he lives on the other side of town. These people
don't have relatives they can stay with in other parts of the country
because their relatives are in the city with them - and have been for
many years. Staying in a motel is out of the question - when you're
living day-to-day you just can't afford the luxury.

There's also an emotional aspect to leaving that you, accustomed
as you are to travelling routinely throughout the country, won't
understand. A lot of these people have never been more than 25-30 miles
from the home they were raised in. They may be in harm's way, but
it's a familiar place. Even a lot of the middle-class inhabitants of the
city can't understand how someone could move so far away (like maybe
150 miles) from everything they grew up with and all their friends and
family. After all, if you're that far away aren't you in a different
country?

What you're doing is projecting your background onto people whose
background is nothing like yours. New Orleans is not Iowa, and people's
attitudes there are veru different from what you're used to. The
decisions you _think_ you would make might seem like the only rational
decisions, but the decisions the people in New Orleans made were just
as rational - for them. In most cases, it boils down to doing the best
you can when you don't have any options.

It was one heck of a show of the power of THE OCEAN though wasn't it Jay.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1xtRe.320308$xm3.164023@attbi_s21...
JH Why the hell were they there?

Ah, finally we see an example of "conservative compassion."

???

Let's see, Jim Cantori (Sp?) on the Weather Channel told 'em...

Their State Governments told 'em....

CNN told 'em...

Fox News told 'em...

How many people have to tell these dumb asses to GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE
when there is a Level 5 hurricane bearing down on them, before they
actually listen?

They're there because they're there. No fricking place is safe,
Jay. Next time some huge blizzard shuts down the mid-west for days or
weeks I'll remember your answer. Next time a tornado rips through
I'll ask, "why the hell were you living there?"

Blizzards are fairly commonplace here, and no reason to fear. If
anything, they're kinda fun.

Unfortunately, tornados are tiny, and cannot be forecast with any degree
of accuracy. They're like meteorites -- highly destructive, and totally
unpredictable.

Bottom line: If I could sit here in Iowa, watching on TV as this big ol'
bag of Katrina whoop-ass bore inexorably down on the Gulf Coast, why
couldn't the people who actually LIVE THERE do the same thing?

I would have been in my plane/van/car/whatever, aimed north...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2005-09-01, Jay Honeck wrote:
Bottom line: If I could sit here in Iowa, watching on TV as this big ol' bag
of Katrina whoop-ass bore inexorably down on the Gulf Coast, why couldn't
the people who actually LIVE THERE do the same thing?

I would have been in my plane/van/car/whatever, aimed north...

It would have to be 'whatever' because tens of thousands of New Orleans
residents DO NOT own cars and there aren't enough buses to go around.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1xtRe.320308$xm3.164023@attbi_s21...
JH Why the hell were they there?

Ah, finally we see an example of "conservative compassion."

???

Let's see, Jim Cantori (Sp?) on the Weather Channel told 'em...

Their State Governments told 'em....

CNN told 'em...

Fox News told 'em...

How many people have to tell these dumb asses to GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE
when there is a Level 5 hurricane bearing down on them, before they
actually
listen?

I said the same thing at first, but I've learned a bit since then.

1. It wasn't a category 5 until pretty much the last minute. It took even
the forecasters by surprise.

2. These folks have been through some serious storms in the past, including
Camille. Old timers there remember Camille and stayed put because they felt
nothing could be worse than that storm. They were very wrong, but they have
been on the winning side of this bet so many times since Camille.

3. NO is very very poor. This affects what and how folks do things. Really
poor folks don't hardly ever go ANYWHERE. They walk to the grocery store,
post office etc. Especially the elderly (who lived through Camille--see
point no. 2) It's not foremost in their mind to jump in their car and get
out. Hell, there's a good chance they don't have a car! If you don't believe
me, go to a grocery store in a poor section of town. You'll see shopping
carts all over the place from where people push their carts home.

4. Even if they could get somewhere, where would they go with little money?
Who would they stay with? When all your family lives in NO, and you don't
have much money, you have few options.

Even middle class folks are in serious trouble. They evacuated, but their
houses were leveled. I saw a family on TV who was living in their car in
front of a CVS pharmacy. There are countless stories like this playing out
all over the gulf coast right now. It is terrible.

Regardless of why people stayed in NO, they are there and we need to help
them. They have lost literally everything they have. Pointing our fingers at
the vicitms right now is not helping.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

in article 1xtRe.320308$xm3.164023@attbi_s21, Jay Honeck at
wrote on 8/31/05 7:17 PM:

JH Why the hell were they there?

Ah, finally we see an example of "conservative compassion."

???

Let's see, Jim Cantori (Sp?) on the Weather Channel told 'em...

Their State Governments told 'em....

CNN told 'em...

Fox News told 'em...

How many people have to tell these dumb asses to GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE
when there is a Level 5 hurricane bearing down on them, before they actually
listen?

You might better direct your anger towards a federal government that had all
the same warnings, all the same information (and probably more), and yet has
STILL not taken control of the situation, FOUR DAYS after disaster struck.

Shoot, Jay, when even the collective might of the United States military and
its assorted agencies are running around with their thumbs up their asses
several days after the fact, is it really appropriate to express outrage at
the victims who are suffering most?

On 2005-08-31, Jay Honeck wrote:
Why the hell were they there? Everyone in America knew that New Orleans --
and everything for 100 miles on each side -- was about to be blasted by
Katrina.

Not everyone had a means of getting out of New Orleans. Many of those
who stayed had their feet as their only form of transport. They had a
choice - stay and ride it out in the Superdome or their homes, or
perhaps walk and get no more than 20 miles and be guaranteed to be
*without shelter* when the storm hit.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Not everyone had a means of getting out of New Orleans. Many of those
who stayed had their feet as their only form of transport.

I don't buy it.

I've worked with and around more poor people than probably anyone else on
this newsgroup. Almost without exception, the very first thing a poor,
inner city family buys, after arriving in town -- before a bed, before
clothing, before toiletries (but after booze, cigarettes, and a big, loud
stereo) -- is an old, POS car. They would pool their checks right after
Father's Day (the First of the month, when the government checks used to
arrive -- the happiest day of the month, which was the only time the
neighborhood men were seen) and go buy a 15 year old used car.

On the other hand, as I understand it, welfare recipients now receive
government ATM cards, so perhaps they all don't receive money on "The First"
anymore? Without this form of "enforced savings", perhaps you're right?

In any event, it is clear that a significant proportion of the coastal
population paid no heed to the warnings -- and met an untimely demise.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

Almost without exception, the very first thing a poor,
inner city family buys, after arriving in town -- ....

Well, one thing is that most of these people didn't "arrive in town." They were
born there. People who have families elsewhere do tend to buy cars when they
can. But people who grew up in large cities frequently don't. Most Manhattanites
don't have cars, for example. Hell, when I hit Atlanta in my youth, it was
several months before I bought a car - hitchhiking and public transportation did
me fine.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.