Saw President Bush's plane (response to "Saw J.T.'s Plane")

On Aug 30, 7:00 am, cjcampbell
wrote:

SNIP

In fact, people have been killed by Presidential motorcades, some
recently. These things are dangerous. The Secret Service really needs
to work on the disruption and hazards to safety caused by their
security. Just because the SS guys are willing to take a bullet for
the President does not meant that everyone else in the country feels
the same way.- Hide quoted text -


There have been fatal accidents involving police officers who were
part of the escort but I've not ever heard of cilvilians dying due to
actions related to POTUS escorts.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here
before the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came
within a block of my house well within shooting distance and though
I was at work when he actually drove by there was no visible
security on the route 30 minutes before.

I think the level of security changes with possible threats.
Obviously his security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.

Did they have this particular black SUV there?
http://navlog.org/q_car.wmv.

There were several Black SUVs in attendance
Could you tell if one was the Q-Car?

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...


First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative
republic. The President and Vice President are the only two
representatives who are elected by the entire electorate. That does
give them a certain higher standing than the other members of our
government.
Since you're picking nits, I'll join in:

First, they are elected by the Electoral College, and second, they are
executives, not representatives. Only our representatives are elected
by direct vote, and even senators were originally elected by state
representative.

Let me rephrase. PRES & VPRES are the only folks whose names are on
everyone's ballot.

And originally the VP was whoever came in second for President. Of all the
constitution that had to be the silliest idea in it.
Almost as silly as some of the tortured interpretations of it.

On Aug 30, 2:04 pm, Jay Beckman wrote:
On Aug 30, 7:00 am, cjcampbell
wrote:

SNIP

In fact, people have been killed by Presidential motorcades, some
recently. These things are dangerous. The Secret Service really needs
to work on the disruption and hazards to safety caused by their
security. Just because the SS guys are willing to take a bullet for
the President does not meant that everyone else in the country feels
the same way.- Hide quoted text -

There have been fatal accidents involving police officers who were
part of the escort but I've not ever heard of cilvilians dying due to
actions related to POTUS escorts.

Ah, well, if they were only police officers then it doesn't matter? Of
course, given some of the other postings here, one might expect
someone from Chandler to have that attitude. :-)

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

But that aside the majority of the citizens of the US feel that the POTUS is
of significant enough importance to allow those who are charged with his
well being a certain latitude in his protection.

How do you know? None of the current procedures in effect was ever voted on
by the majority of citizens of the US; it's all Executive Orders and the like.
Some of the laws related to this look wildly unconstitutional.

While a individual or even
many individulas might have in the past or in the future suffer some
financial loss due to the steps required to protect the POTUS it pales in
comparison to the loss that would be suffered by many, many people should he
be killed, especially should that attack be part of a larger attack on our
country. The loss may well be caused by purely emotional reactions but that
doesn't make the loss any less.

A number of presidents have been killed in office and the country has not
disintegrated into chaos.

Bringing a city to a halt is, to say the least, a little overstated.

I wish it were.

As far as the limit to the POTUS's importance to the US, yes there is a
limit as there is a limit to what can be done to protect him. But, at least
at this point the general public doesn't think that limit has been exceeded.

The general public has never been consulted on the question.

Gattman writes:

Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change hasn't exactly gone over
well here.

The U.S. is not at war.

The current President seems to be much more fearful than most of his
predecessors.

"Gig 601XL Builder !" wrote

But that aside the majority of the citizens of the US feel that the POTUS
is
of significant enough importance to allow those who are charged with his
well being a certain latitude in his protection. While a individual or
even
many individulas might have in the past or in the future suffer some
financial loss due to the steps required to protect the POTUS it pales in
comparison to the loss that would be suffered by many, many people should
he
be killed, especially should that attack be part of a larger attack on our
country. The loss may!well be caused by purely emotional reactions but
that
doesn't make the loss any less.

Bringing a city to a halt is, to say the least, a little overstated. Bush
was here in little old El Dorado Arkansas (pop. ~20k) before the last
election. The town didn't come to a halt. A matter of fact if you weren't
in
a 4 block radius of where he was speaking you wouldn't have known he was
in
town. As a matter of fact I went to the airport where AF1 was sitting
(though it wasn't the 747 it was a 757)and was allowed inside the fence
and
allowed to go to my hanger. There was a police officer there who asked why
I
was there. When I pointed to the airplane tires in the back of my truck
and
to my hanger he said, "Have a nice day and please leave via this exit."
This
was mainly because AF1 was parked 50 yards from the other exit and I would
have had to drive past it.

As far as the limit to the POTUS's importance to the US, yes there is a
limit as there is a limit to what can be done to protect him. But, at
least
at this point the general public doesn't think that limit has been
exceeded.

Well said, Gig. It is always good to hear a voice of calm analysis, as all
around are freaking out.

They remind me of all of the conspiracy theorists, in a way. Something like
all the POTUS is trying to do is ruin their (and as many other's) day. So
sorry; life is not fair, but I believe as you do, that a dead president at
the hands of an assassin would not be a "good thing" for the country.
--
Jim in NC

Ricky writes:

The leadership here at TSTC has been briefed long ago to warn students
about crossing boundaries such as dark-suited personel, closed gates
that are normally opened, etc. with the possibility that lethal force
could absolutely be used if necessary.

But deadly force has never been used, has it?

Typically walking through a gate (even a locked gate) or walking past someone
in a dark suit is not a justification for the use of deadly force.

A few semesters ago some A&P students hopped the normally-open gate
going to the hangar during a Bush arrival or departure, worried about
missing lab. They were very quickly apprehended and detained,
questioned for many hours and ultimately put on a terrorist watch
list.

What were their names, and on what date did this occur?

Ricky writes:

Well, most folks around here appreciate the opportunity to walk right
up to AFO, see the pretty plane, take pictures etc...as did I.

Because your deity was gracious enough to permit it?

Sure, but he's also well protected since 9-11 especially.

He's paranoid, and apparently it's contagious.

I don't know. The Air Force does not operate under FAA rules, do they?

Emergencies always take precedence over everything.

I have the feeling that even an emergency would be told to go
somewhere else OR the fighters would see to it that the emergency was
taken care of without getting near Bush.

You must watch a lot of movies. Can you imagine the headlines? ...

FAMILY OF FOUR KILLED BY BUSH SECURITY AFTER DECLARING EMERGENCY IN PRIVATE
PLANE

Yes, that would go over _real_ well.

Whatever.

Is that how you defend your freedoms? By dismissing any discussion of them
that becomes complex? Don't be surprised if you wake up one day and they are
gone.

"Ricky" wrote

A few semesters ago some A&P students hopped the normally-open gate
going to the hangar during a Bush arrival or departure, worried about
missing lab. They were very quickly apprehended and detained,
questioned for many hours and ultimately put on a terrorist watch
list.

Ahhh, once again, proving that in our youth, (and in the youth of today) we
do not always stop to consider the implications of our activities.

Still, that is a pretty good hit for them to take, but not completely (or
even a little bit) surprising.

I was in a concert band where the vice president (at the time) was giving a
commencement address. We had to open our instrument cases, and have our
instruments (mine was a trombone) and cases thoroughly inspected before we
entered the stadium. They did just that. Quite thoroughly.

We were also told (ahead of time) to make no jokes with the secret service;
that they had no sense of humor.

They were absolutely right about that, also.
--
Jim in NC