Trig TT21 + TN72 TABS ADS-B Out Install working great....

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 7:45:25 AM UTC-8, wrote:
So to confirm what I think I understand: an Experimental airworthiness glider can fully satisfy the 2020 ADS-B mandate using the TT22 + TN72.

A Standard airworthiness glider must use the TT22 + TN70.

(The TN70 is about $1500 more than the TN72).

Is that correct?

Matt

Yes.

But again, for most gliders they likely don't need to meet the 2020 Mandate and will get all the ADS-B Out benefits they need from just doing a TABS install.

Just transmitting SIL=3 aka a 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out install makes it more serious than doing a TABS (SIL=1 instal). Even if not required for an install in an experimental aircraft I would still hope that any 2020 Compliant install is checked by the installer and/or owner by doing a FAA validation test flight (details all over the web) as usually done for a type certified installation. Many mistakes with ADS-B Out are simple software settings issues and it would be better to know it's apparently working OK and not have to have an FSDO inspector track the owner down... FAA folks are having to waste their time doing that now because there are many ADS-B Out installations with problems, and yes they are paying lots of attention to new ADS-B Out installs that show up in their surveillance system. And let me preemptively guess that stuff like TT22 not set to use squat switch emulation will be a common problem for 2020 Complaint installs of a TT22+TN72 in experimental gliders. That is discussed in the documentation, but it's silly stuff like that causing issues in GA ADS-B land.

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-8, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:04:37 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

The Company for Trig Service is Mid Continent Instruments
https://www.mcico.com/

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-8, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:04:37 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

The Company for Trig Service is MidContinent Instruments, they will do the free firmware update to the TT22.

https://www.mcico.com/

Please talk to the service department, I think you only need to send them the main unit.

Information about the TT22, TN72

http://www.craggyaero.com/trig.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

I was asked to send both units as both need to be upgraded. Turnaround time was about 2 weeks and they only charged for shipping.

Ramy

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:00:49 AM UTC-5, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

A local Trig dealer can do the software upgrade if they have the proper cables, equipment, time in their schedule, and expertise. But it is free + shipping + insurance from Mid Continent. I thought it was rather easy to pull the head and XPDR unit out of plane. You don't need to send them the cable.

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:43:08 AM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 7:45:25 AM UTC-8, wrote:
So to confirm what I think I understand: an Experimental airworthiness glider can fully satisfy the 2020 ADS-B mandate using the TT22 + TN72.

A Standard airworthiness glider must use the TT22 + TN70.

(The TN70 is about $1500 more than the TN72).

Is that correct?

Matt

Yes.

But again, for most gliders they likely don't need to meet the 2020 Mandate and will get all the ADS-B Out benefits they need from just doing a TABS install.

Just transmitting SIL=3 aka a 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out install makes it more serious than doing a TABS (SIL=1 instal). Even if not required for an install in an experimental aircraft I would still hope that any 2020 Compliant install is checked by the installer and/or owner by doing a FAA validation test flight (details all over the web) as usually done for a type certified installation. Many mistakes with ADS-B Out are simple software settings issues and it would be better to know it's apparently working OK and not have to have an FSDO inspector track the owner down... FAA folks are having to waste their time doing that now because there are many ADS-B Out installations with problems, and yes they are paying lots of attention to new ADS-B Out installs that show up in their surveillance system. And let me preemptively guess that stuff like TT22 not set to use squat switch emulation will be a common problem for 2020 Complaint installs of a TT22+TN72 in experimental gliders. That is discussed in the documentation, but it's silly stuff like that causing issues in GA ADS-B land.

And once you do a full validation of the install you will quickly find out that antenna placement matters a lot!

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 1:21:21 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:00:49 AM UTC-5, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

A local Trig dealer can do the software upgrade if they have the proper cables, equipment, time in their schedule, and expertise. But it is free + shipping + insurance from Mid Continent. I thought it was rather easy to pull the head and XPDR unit out of plane. You don't need to send them the cable.

It will be cool if we could integrate our ADS-B data into the sailplane tracker to provide continuous real time position reporting.

Ramy

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 6:19:14 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 1:21:21 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:00:49 AM UTC-5, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

A local Trig dealer can do the software upgrade if they have the proper cables, equipment, time in their schedule, and expertise. But it is free + shipping + insurance from Mid Continent. I thought it was rather easy to pull the head and XPDR unit out of plane. You don't need to send them the cable.

It will be cool if we could integrate our ADS-B data into the sailplane tracker to provide continuous real time position reporting.

Ramy

For under $100 you can build an ADS-B receiver, and get a free enterprise subscription to flightaware.com (see https://flightaware.com/adsb/piaware/build). With that you can enter your N number and get a track of all of your flights for the last 6 months or so.

Using the same hardware, you can also get other software that feeds other databases in addition to flightaware. There are over 15,000 of these amateur receivers deployed around the world. There are even guys installing these on mountain peaks out west, coupled with directional WIFI antennas with 30+ mile links to the closest internet connection. Amazing stuff you can do for cheap.

Has anyone measured the extra power consumption associated with the TN72 and additional GPS antenna installation? Significant or trivial? Does the ADS-B configuration change in the Trig result in more frequent xpndr transmissions?

The extra ~2/second broadcasts from the transponder is likely lost in the noise compared to all the interrogations a transponder otherwise gets. So go by the specs or better just measure the TN72 + GPS antenna power consumption on the ground and add that to your power budget. The few mA at 12V effective current draw from the GPS antenna should have small effect as well.