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Minimum number of flights for winch sign off?



 
 
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  #41  
Old February 17th 18, 08:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Default Minimum number of flights for winch sign off?

I come from a military fighter background - having learned to fly in High School, so tend to see the risks in soaring from a very different perspective. Edge of the envelope is what it is all about, by it's very nature, and that is why it appeals to me; skill, currency, knowledge, training, all need to be up to the task.

Just like most power pilots will say "why would anyone fly without an engine - that's nuts!", without any winch experience the natural response from someone trained in a highly structured, "middle of the envelope" flying environment" would be "that looks dangerous, what if the winch quits or fails in some way. But the non-intuitive answer is that during a winch launch, the pilot is totally in control of the safety of the launch at all times, and can always make a safe landing! Too slow - release and land straight ahead. Too fast, dump the nose or release. Cable break, dump the nose and land. Erratic launch by a weak winch or new operator - release and land.



Kirk
66


You may want to revisit your immediate actions in the event of "...Too fast, dump the nose or release..." to something like, signal too fast or release...

Dan
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  #42  
Old February 18th 18, 12:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Default Minimum number of flights for winch sign off?

On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 2:39:26 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote:

You may want to revisit your immediate actions in the event of "...Too fast, dump the nose or release..." to something like, signal too fast or release...

Dan
2D


You are correct, of course. I was trying to point out that a winch launch provides many options for solving a problem which may not be obvious to someone who has not tried it.

Cheers,

Kirk
66
  #43  
Old February 18th 18, 07:05 AM
Ventus_a Ventus_a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk.stant View Post
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 2:44:58 PM UTC-6, Charles Longley wrote:[color=blue][i]
Correct airline pilot also A&P/ IA.
snip

Then there are the ways glider pilots try to kill tow pilots! Hard to hurt a winch launch operator unless you crash on the winch.

Kirk
66
I appreciate the fact that the tow pilot has his ass on the line when towing gliders aloft and that figures high in my respect for the job they do. It's entirely possible for a winch driver to kill a glider pilot without breaking a sweat or being in danger himself.

As posted earlier I only launch with tow pilots or winch drivers that I feel I can trust with my neck

:-) Colin
  #44  
Old February 23rd 18, 07:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Minimum number of flights for winch sign off?

On Friday, 16 February 2018 02:38:18 UTC, Charles Longley wrote:
Just don’t do winch launches.

Let’s see you’re going to attach me to the ground with some homemade contraption? Who knows what the operators qualifications are. No thanks!


Here in the UK all the winches I've seen at gliding sites are a professional product, usually a Skylaunch. The drivers have to be trained and signed off. Many sites - not just the biggest ones - have professional drivers. In the time I've been flying at a mainly winch site we have had one potentially fatal aerotow accident (tug upset) and one fatal winch launch accident.. Since we do far more winch and aerotow launches I think the conclusion is obvious - winch launching done properly is as safe as aerotows.
  #45  
Old February 23rd 18, 08:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Minimum number of flights for winch sign off?

With all due respect Sally, I submit your conclusion is not statistically valid nor is your method of analysis. Sorry, the engineer in me sometimes comes out.

Just by the data you suggest, winch launching is safer as you have had the same number of fatals with much more launches done by the winch. In practice this is not true and the BGA has some great pamphlets on both winch launch and aero-tow.



On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 11:51:01 AM UTC-8, Sally Woolrich wrote:
On Friday, 16 February 2018 02:38:18 UTC, Charles Longley wrote:
Just don’t do winch launches.

Let’s see you’re going to attach me to the ground with some homemade contraption? Who knows what the operators qualifications are. No thanks!


Here in the UK all the winches I've seen at gliding sites are a professional product, usually a Skylaunch. The drivers have to be trained and signed off. Many sites - not just the biggest ones - have professional drivers. In the time I've been flying at a mainly winch site we have had one potentially fatal aerotow accident (tug upset) and one fatal winch launch accident. Since we do far more winch and aerotow launches I think the conclusion is obvious - winch launching done properly is as safe as aerotows.


 




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