EAA plans major building expansion?

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:49:06 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in news:99L0k.3194$t07.1982
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:4Xy%j.185282$yE1.138744@attbi_s21:

I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become
too
commercial and has forgotten their constituency.

EAA is a big business with a shrinking constituency. Look at the
"Gone West" column each month, and all the empty airports, and
it's
easy to see what they're up against.

If expanding the Airventure grounds so that it may be better used
for
other events helps to preserve our annual fly-in, I'm all for it.
I
wish it were otherwise, but there just ain't enough new pilots in
the
pipeline to support EAA. As a result, their choices are rather
stark.

There were only two at the beginning, idiot.


Who come to your limited mind, you and Anthony?


Paul Poberezny and Steve Whitman, actually.


Bertie

no H, 2 t's

I fly steve's 8th design.

(I know, spelling errors are kook baits :-) )
Stealth Pilot



Wasn't intentional! I type pretty quickly, obviously Good speed, crap
accuracy.

Bertie

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in news:P8idnVtvpM5
:

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:49:06 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

There were only two at the beginning, idiot.


Who come to your limited mind, you and Anthony?


Paul Poberezny and Steve Whitman, actually.


Bertie


Nope. Paul Pobernezny is EAA #1, Steve Wittman was EAA #34.




Yer right. Can;'t remember who he set up with , but it was just a couple
of them at the very beginning...

Anyhow, the point was, you don't need winnebagos, loudspeakers, golf
carts, B2 bomber fly bys or any of that crap tp have the EAA or
something like it. You just need a couple of guys with the knowledge of
how to build an airplane and the desire to do it.



Bertie

I sat in on a focus group at the convention last year on the expansion
plans. While the two new exhibit buildings are the most visible change,
there's some things for the members too. They're going to put in real
showers and toilets in camp areas, and the plan of separating people
from vehicles is way overdue.

One of the comments we made several times, but I fear was ignored, was
the elimination of the parking fee. We thought that raising the
admission price a bit, and reducing the camping fee to make it revenue
neutral would get cars into the event a lot easier. It also gives a bad
first impression of the organization by having their hand out to collect
money before even getting near the main gate.

An item I wasn't too fond of is the triangle shape of the main, and (I
believe) only entrance. Obviously the new vendor rental rate is in the
same form where the peak rate is right at the entrance. This must be to
address the way vendors don't get much traffic to the left, and
especially the right, of the main gate. I think this will put an even
greater emphasis on the commercial aspects of our convention by moving
the people further away from the warbirds, experimental, vintage and
ultralight areas. One thing of note was the architectural drawing had
some display planes at the main entrance. They were all warbirds. None
were experimental or even LSAs.

It will be interesting to see what they do with food service. I
personally like the state fair type of food vendors they have at Sun N'
Fun. There's competition, and it seems like they have a good variety.

Paying to park isn't a problem if it is reasonable. Two bucks is cool,
but when you go over five it is hard to take, especially when you get
to the admissions gate and they sting you again. Maybe some sort of
plan to credit you back the parking fee when you purchase your daily
or weekly pass. Those purchasing a weekly pass should have parking for
the week inclusive with their pass...especially members!

The air show crowd line needs to be addressed too. They need to figure
a way to get the 1500 foot minimum so jets and jet teams can again
perform.

Though the convention grounds are clean, they were much cleaner before
the widespread arrival of food venues within the display area. Trash
and aircraft don't mix. I don't know how many times I witness and
chewed ass of people tucking their trash into aircraft or equipment.
Smoking on and around the aircraft is another sore subject with
me...on a hot summer day, some of these dumba**es light up under the
wing of an aircraft thats venting fuel!!!

The grounds need to be smoke free. A fire started in the dry grass
will destroy or damage too much too fast, especially if an aircraft is
venting fuel from expansion acting as an accelerant.

Hawkeye wrote:
Paying to park isn't a problem if it is reasonable. Two bucks is cool,
but when you go over five it is hard to take

I believe last year it was USD 7

Those purchasing a weekly pass should have parking for
the week inclusive with their pass...especially members!

The logistical problem would be what to do on the first day since you
would have to pay for parking before paying admission. My point is that
the money collection needlessly slows down the process of getting in.

They need to figure a way to get the 1500 foot minimum so jets and jet
teams can again perform.

Personally I think there are enough jets at the EAA Convention already.
Although I did go to a seminar at Sun N Fun where a team is trying to
get funding for development of a low bypass engine that would be
efficient on a 4 passenger plane flying at about 15K ft.
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-to..._turbines.html
I live in an area that usually has a big military show nearby (Westover
/ Westfield, MA) so I get to see a major team anyway, but I can see
where people wouldn't have another change to see them.

I don't know how many times I witness and
chewed ass of people tucking their trash into aircraft or equipment.

Sheez! I didn't think the people there were such jerks. I hadn't seen
that, but the past couple years I haven't spent much time on the flight
line. The Protect Our Planes volunteers are among the most important there.

"Hawkeye" wrote
Paying to park isn't a problem if it is reasonable. Two bucks is cool,
but when you go over five it is hard to take, especially when you get
to the admissions gate and they sting you again. Maybe some sort of
plan to credit you back the parking fee when you purchase your daily
or weekly pass. Those purchasing a weekly pass should have parking for
the week inclusive with their pass...especially members!

I've been volunteering at OSH for about 20 years, mostly selling admissions
and memberships. I've heard every complaint about the cost at least a
thousand times. If you want to enjoy our dairy air in the summer wait a
month and drive fifty miles north to Green Bay and attend a Packer game.
Great entertainment. It'll only cost about $20-$25 for parking $200 for a
good seat, and $7 for a beer. After 3-1/2 hours you go home. Or come to
Airventure. Pay $7 to park, about $25 for the best seat in the house, great
entertainment from the best in the world and stay all day and all night if
you choose. The flightline is never closed.

The air show crowd line needs to be addressed too. They need to figure
a way to get the 1500 foot minimum so jets and jet teams can again
perform.

I spoke to Tom last year about the Angels or T-birds performing. He said
there's no way to make enough room.

If you want to see the Thunderbirds, they will be in Milwakee July 12-13.
See them for free on your way to Airventure. The Blue Angels will be in
Duluth July 19-20. Spend the extra time before the convention volunteering.
You'll make a bunch of new friends comprised of the best people on the
planet, air heads one and all, and you'll get a warm and fuzzy fealing from
havng been a part of the greatest show on earth.

Though the convention grounds are clean, they were much cleaner before
the widespread arrival of food venues within the display area. Trash
and aircraft don't mix. I don't know how many times I witness and
chewed ass of people tucking their trash into aircraft or equipment.
Smoking on and around the aircraft is another sore subject with
me...on a hot summer day, some of these dumba**es light up under the
wing of an aircraft thats venting fuel!!!

The convention grounds are the cleanest venue I've ever seen with 80-100 K
people roaming around. It's not spotless, but the POP crews and G-men do
their best to keep it nice. I think they do a damn fine job. Chewing out
someones ass for littering isn't a good way of dealing with the occasional
slob. Picking up the trash yourself and reminding the guilty party to help
keep Airventure clean will guilt load them so maybe in the future they'll be
more careful. Bitching can make them angry, so next time they do it to spite
you.

The grounds need to be smoke free. A fire started in the dry grass
will destroy or damage too much too fast, especially if an aircraft is
venting fuel from expansion acting as an accelerant.

The groundss are smoke free. That's the rule anyway. I worked POP for two
years and it was my job to look for smokers and pick up trash. I saw little
of either. The smokers invariably light up without thinking and are very
cooperative when politely reminded to snuff it.

Nuff said,
Tom

I've been attending EAA since the early seventies. I can remember
parking at the base of the now "old" control tower watching the show
from the roof of the car. Yes, AirVenture is probably the best in all
areas...especially cleanliness.

EAA has experienced lows and highs over the course of time I've been
attending. The recent changes were done to make the event more
appealing to a broader attendance base. In slow years, the attendance
showed that more non-traditional attendees were needed. So, the
format, attractions and marketing strategies changed accordingly. I
understand the logic behind having exhibitors such as Ford there for
economic support but it did change the flavor somewhat.

During years where there isn't a "big ticket" appearance such as the
Concorde, Harrier or Warbirds (big show) attendance suffered. If it
doesn't go fast, shoot or drop bombs many don't care. Unlike the core
of EAA's members who appreciate all aspects of aerospace and aviation.
Having the "teams" appear such as the Snowbirds did draws a huge
amount of spectators who normally wouldn't attend. Their attendance
means revenue for not only EAA but the community.

Sure one could travel to Milwaukee to see the Thunderbirds, but there
are those who don't want to venture into the heart of a large
unfamiliar city with all of its nuances. Places like Oshkosh are more
accessible and less intimidating.

With any entertainment venue, Packers, Brewers, Concerts...what
ever...spectators want as much bang for their buck as they can get,
especially in these tight economic times. The economic impact of a
community which hosts a large event...such as an airshow that features
a major attraction, suffers when the main attraction fails to show up
or perform. Disappointed spectators take their money home with them.
They also give deep consideration to return again. Human nature.

Is AirVenture perfect...no. Is there room for improvement...yes. Will
I continue to support EAA...yes as long as they continue to listen to
the membership and strive to improve, thus thrive.

See ya at AirVenture...I'm the one with the strange hat, T-Shirt with
an airplane on the back, shorts with lots of pockets, two cameras
around my neck, scanner to my ear, lawn chair under my arm and a smile
on my face!

"Hawkeye" wrote in message ...

See ya at AirVenture...I'm the one with the strange hat, T-Shirt with
an airplane on the back, shorts with lots of pockets, two cameras
around my neck, scanner to my ear, lawn chair under my arm and a smile
on my face!

Sounds like I just looked in hte mirror!

"Hawkeye" wrote

See ya at AirVenture...I'm the one with the strange hat, T-Shirt with
an airplane on the back, shorts with lots of pockets, two cameras
around my neck, scanner to my ear, lawn chair under my arm and a smile
on my face!

You'll look like 75% of the rest of the crowd! I'll be the bald guy selling
admissions at gate E-17 every morning, lost in space in the afternoon. Stop
by and say 'hi' while your there.
Tom

It could be worse...Skoal sleeveless T-Shirt, mullet, ultra short
denim cutoffs taking pictures with a camera phone while holding a
beer. ROTFL