ANOTHER airspace incursion in D.C.?

The Feds are going to lose patience with these incursions, bet on it.
And
then we'll all be screwed.
and you can do nothing about it?

well: vote!

I do -- every election, no matter how small.

However, you seem to have misinterpreted my attitude, Martin -- I'm not
blaming the government on this one. Although I think the D.C. ADIZ is
stupid, I'm in FAVOR of prosecuting the idiots who bust it. I'd rather see
the Feds make a harsh example of one of these guys, instead of waiting for
them to try the much-feared nation-wide "blanket" solution.

Personally, I think a LOT of controlled airspace is stupid, starting with
Class D, non-radar-controlled airspace -- but that doesn't mean I'm in favor
of pilots arbitrarily busting through it, against published procedures.
Although Ron has a valid point about the ADIZ not being on the sectionals,
as long as the law is on the books pilots have to be smart enough to read
it.

Again, my point is this: If these few dolts don't figure it out -- soon --
the FAA may be forced to come up with a "solution". This is something none
of us wants.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" wrote:



#m
--

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...fthefallen.htm

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:yVMsb.193242$e01.708575@attbi_s02...

However, you seem to have misinterpreted my attitude, Martin -- I'm not
blaming the government on this one. Although I think the D.C. ADIZ is
stupid, I'm in FAVOR of prosecuting the idiots who bust it. I'd rather see
the Feds make a harsh example of one of these guys, instead of waiting for
them to try the much-feared nation-wide "blanket" solution.

They are making an example of them, they just have not been holding the
executions in public. They have also been going against leaseback owners
whose planes are involved. Your ignorance of what is happening accross
the country is overwhelming.

In article , "Ron
Natalie" wrote:

They are making an example of them, they just have not been holding the
executions in public. They have also been going against leaseback owners
whose planes are involved. Your ignorance of what is happening accross
the country is overwhelming.

If "they" are not doing public executions, than why bust someone's
chops for being "ignorant"? We should all know about the things
that aren't made public knowledge?

--
Bob Noel

"Bob Noel" wrote in message ...
In article , "Ron
Natalie" wrote:

They are making an example of them, they just have not been holding the
executions in public. They have also been going against leaseback owners
whose planes are involved. Your ignorance of what is happening accross
the country is overwhelming.

If "they" are not doing public executions, than why bust someone's
chops for being "ignorant"? We should all know about the things
that aren't made public knowledge?

Why is Jay busting pilots chops for violoating pathetically poorly announced
restrictions then? He was the one who came here bitching about the incursions.
This whole thing is happening under the table and via
the NOTAM system which is pathetically the most inane way of dissenminating
information. It is vastly overlooked by pilots and FSS professionals. ATC hasn't
a clue either. I've had IFR's cleared into the FRZ which resulted in pilot violations
as well.

The ADIZ should be on the charts.
The NOTAM plain text should be in the AF/D.
The remarks section of every airport inside the ADIZ/FRZ should reference
the appropriate NOTAM.

Crikely, these things are printed on short enough cycles that THE standard, most
used preplanning publications contain them.

Jay Honeck wrote:
Again, my point is this: If these few dolts don't figure it out -- soon --
the FAA may be forced to come up with a "solution". This is something none
of us wants.

The problem is that the whole system consists of human beings. People ARE
going to make mistakes. That's just the way it is. And of course, some
people are just stupid. But we're never gonna stop the occasional
incursion. There are Class B incursions every day, all over the country,
and know one says anything. I understand this is more critical, but as I
said, they're human beings and they're going to make mistakes. No one
ever hears about the periodic mistakes that NORAD or the air traffic
controllers are making... incorrectly identifying aircraft as violating
the airspace.

I think, atleast to some extent, you're being so hardlined because it
isn't presently effecting you. If tomorrow, they plopped an ADIZ on top
of Iowa City, you'd be ****ed, and you'd also probably be more
understanding.

-- Jay


__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

"Jay Masino" wrote in message ...
. No one
ever hears about the periodic mistakes that NORAD or the air traffic
controllers are making... incorrectly identifying aircraft as violating
the airspace.

You mean like the interception we had here when the pilot "almost entered" the
ADIZ. There's a special regulatory word for "almost entered," it's called remaining
clear.

Ron Natalie wrote:
You mean like the interception we had here when the pilot "almost
entered" the ADIZ. There's a special regulatory word for "almost
entered," it's called remaining clear.

:-) yea

-- Jay


__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
The ADIZ should be on the charts.

The FAA seems to think that it is. From today's AvWeb:

[...] it has been violated more than 600 times. "Frankly, we're a bit
frustrated that pilots are still violating it, and we don't know why,"
the FAA's William Shumann told AVweb yesterday. "It's on the charts,
it's on our Web site."

Conversely, the comment "and we don't know why" is funny. Maybe it has
something to do with the fact that the FAA thinks the ADIZ is charted, even
though it's not. I could see how they would get confused.

Pete

Ron, I couldn't agree more, the presentation and updating of the
ADIZ/FRZ/TFR data is a dangerous mess. Hell, I thought poorly of the
NOTAM system long before 9/11. Since then, it's been overloaded to
the point where I'm sure many don't read the damned NOTAMS because
it's too confusing.

However, in fairness to Jay, he's right too. If someone with a real
pilot certificate hasn't figured out by now that there is a FRZ
somewhere around Washington DC, and that person can't figure out that
they're headed right toward the middle of the city, then I don't
believe they should be behind the controls of an aircraft.

We've all had times when we weren't sure of our actual position
(mostly before GPS became common), but gosh, it's hard to miss a city.
And even if one had no idea of position within 10 miles of accuracy
(hard to imagine, but possible) one would at least know which headings
were more likely to in to danger than others.

We pilots are mere mortals. The NOTAM system is a relic of the
teletype days. Hell, all the FAA has to do is build something
resembling a few moderated news servers and they'd have a vast
improvement over what we're using now. Then allow for intelligent
clients to search the news database for relevant information by
geographical significance, and it would satisfy at least 90% of most
of the gripes we have today.

But, of course, knowing those cheerfully silly FAA planners, it'll
become a monster project with all sorts of overhead and maintenance,
it'll be designed for the next five decades of flight, and it'll cost
so much that it'll fall on the floor as too impractical.

Sigh.


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A

Why is Jay busting pilots chops for violoating pathetically poorly
announced
restrictions then? He was the one who came here bitching about the
incursions.

Because, according to the FAA, it's happened over 600 times now. Maybe we
can explain away the ignorance of the first 10. Hell, I'll even give you
the first 100.

But 600? That's ineptitude on a grand scale, and embarrassing.

No wonder the general public thinks we're a bunch of air-headed rich boys.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"