Cessna 150 Price Outlook

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

Gilan wrote:

if you are looking for opinions then I have to say I think if Sport Pilot
ever becomes a reality then a Cessna 150 or 152 will get very cheap.

Why?

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that cannot
be learned any other way. Samuel Clemens

If Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft reach their full potential, then we
should have reasonably priced aircraft with the payload of the 150/152 and the
speed (forgive the misuse of the word) and range of the 172.

That is certainly not a given; since I think that the gross weight limit is
about 250 to 350 pounds lower than it should be, and that the average LSA will
frequently operate over gross.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
If Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft reach their full potential, then
we
should have reasonably priced aircraft with the payload of the 150/152 and
the
speed (forgive the misuse of the word) and range of the 172.

For a flyable aircraft, new, roughly 1/3rd the cost of a new aircraft from
Cessna or Piper.

That is certainly not a given; since I think that the gross weight limit
is
about 250 to 350 pounds lower than it should be, and that the average LSA
will
frequently operate over gross.

Actually, that's not quite true. It would be true if we were talking about
existing certified aircraft. A Cessna 150 weighs 1600 lbs. I am disappointed
that LSA does not cover the Cessna 150 or Piper Tomahawk. However, for
homebuilt planes, the weight is okay. My only disappointment there was the
Murphy Rebel which is too heavy; the Murphy Maverick fits because it was
designed for the overseas microlight market. Almost all of the aircraft from
Fisher fit the category although they perform more like a Piper Cub than a
172. There are aircraft from Capella, Rans, and Zenith that fit the class.

It should also be noted that even EAA only recommended an increase to 1300
lbs even and that was only to allow additional (heavier) engines. As it
currently stands, the primary engines would be either Rotax or Jabiru
(perhaps Hirth). With an additional 78 lbs, Suburu conversions, Continental
O-200s and Lycoming 235's as well as the smallest Franklin are usable.

As far as the weight being a problem, again a Cessna 150 at 1600 lbs only
has a 600lb payload. A Zenith 601 at 1200lbs has the same 600lb payload. My
feeling was that they should have put in a waver for certified aircraft to
allow light trainers to exceed the weight limit. However, it won't be a
problem for homebuilts.

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:40:23 +0000, Brent Rehmel wrote:

As far as the weight being a problem, again a Cessna 150 at 1600 lbs only
has a 600lb payload. A Zenith 601 at 1200lbs has the same 600lb payload. My
feeling was that they should have put in a waver for certified aircraft to
allow light trainers to exceed the weight limit. However, it won't be a
problem for homebuilts.

Quoting the FAA's page on LSA...

Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter
or powered-lift, that is limited to:

1. A maximum takeoff weight of 1,232 pounds (560 kilograms) or, for lighter-than-air aircraft, a maximum gross weight of 660 pounds (300 kilograms);
2. A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of 115 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions;
3. A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of 115 knots CAS for a glider;
4. A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration (VS0) of 39 knots CAS;
5. A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of 44 knots CAS;
6. A maximum seating capacity of two persons, including the pilot;
7. A single, non-turbine engine, if powered;
8. A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller, if powered;
9. A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane;
10. A non-pressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin; and
11. Fixed landing gear, or for seaplanes, repositionable landing gear.


The planes you mentioned have a higher gross weight than 1,232 lbs and
exceed the VNE as well. If you look at it as I am, the limitations will
be so severe that you will fly single seat as you would have to fly an
ultralight otherwise. Take 2 190 lbs adults, that 380 lbs, subtracted
from 1,232 gives 852 lbs for the aircraft and fuel. Assume 26 gal of fuel,
subtract 156 lbs from 852 giving 696 lbs for you plane. That doesn't give
you a whole lot of plane. My numbers are derived from the newer 190 lb
average weight now, 26 gallons of fuel being what the 150 has and usually
the smaller amount in certified aircraft. The 1,232 lb gross weight from
the NPRM from the FAA's website. The rest being basic math. You'll
notice on line 1 from their site there is the word "or" before the 660 lbs
gross weight, so it does not apply to planes, those being limited to 1,232
lbs total.

The only thing I see that could change this would be how maximum takeoff
weight is interpreted. If it means the weight of the plane and
passengers, then this new rule will not hurt any existing aircraft, be it
a 150 or a Cub, they all have more capability than the limitations listed
above which came from the FAA's page on the nprm for the sport pilot.

Anybody who thinks a 150 will drop in value has their head in the clouds
because PP's will continue to fly it over the lower performing category
until such time as they can't.

Charles,

The cost of aviating is increasing and made a major increase after
9/11.

The result is that most people have had to move down one notch in
plane ownership:
- Doctors who used to buy new bonanza's are now getting used ones,
- (Lawyers are too scared to fly)
- Engineers that use to have Mooney's now get Cessna's or cherokees.
- Blue collar workers who used to get 182/172's now get 150/2s.

Also, more people are looking at total cost of ownership, which favors
the lower maintenance cost of single engine, fixed pitch, fixed gear
simple planes.

The result is:
- more demand at the bottom end and solid pricing for 150/2.
- Less demand for the older bo's and Mooneys.

Mitch - That my $0.02...Businessmen buy jets



"Charles Talleyrand" wrote in message ...
Anyone want to guess the medium term price trends for a C-150?
By medium term I mean the next five-ish years.

My guess would be "more of the same" meaning increases of a few
percent a year with mild year-to-year variations.

The only effects I can see are whatever's left of the upward bounce-back
from the 9-11 price drops, any price drops that might occur becuase of
the current political trends against general aviation, and the possible
coming influx of "Sport Light Airplanes".

(N7155A) writes:

The result is:
- more demand at the bottom end and solid pricing for 150/2.
- Less demand for the older bo's and Mooneys.

I had a chat with a busy (Canadian) broker last December. He told me
at the time that the singles were selling fine (especially the simpler
ones, as you note), but that the used twin market had almost
completely collapsed.

I'd be surprised to see too many people buying a 150/2 for financial
reasons -- a Cherokee 140 costs about the same to purchase, fuel, and
maintain, but it has two more seats and flies faster. I think that
people who buy the 150/2 do it because of personal preferences for
style or handling.


All the best,


David

David Megginson wrote in message

I'd be surprised to see too many people buying a 150/2 for financial
reasons -- a Cherokee 140 costs about the same to purchase, fuel, and
maintain, but it has two more seats and flies faster. I think that
people who buy the 150/2 do it because of personal preferences for
style or handling.

Partner and I purchased a '67 150G in late June. Why?

1. It's what we're most familiar with;
2. First time ownership meant K.I.S.S.;
3. It fits our mission profile & it fits our wives' expense profile.

Best,

Greg Hopp
N4691X

Partner and I purchased a '67 150G in late June. Why?

1. It's what we're most familiar with;
2. First time ownership meant K.I.S.S.;
3. It fits our mission profile & it fits our wives' expense profile.

Best,

Greg Hopp
N4691X

AND, you'll never find a Cherokee that can legally do loops and spins like the
A150/152!

(DaveSproul) wrote in
:

AND, you'll never find a Cherokee that can legally do loops and spins
like the A150/152!

Actually, the early Cherokee 140s were certified for spins.

--
John Godwin
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT from email address)