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Playing Chicken With The Birds



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 20th 18, 02:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 22
Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

Hi, everyone.

Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.

Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.

These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.

I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.

For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?

In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)
  #2  
Old November 20th 18, 02:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Rob Cluxton[_2_]
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Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

Anecdotal evidence only but most birds will tuck and dive when they feel threatened. Lone exception being a bald eagle. They’ll stick out their talons and screech at you!

Try and go above the bird if you can. If not, for sure don’t go under them at close range.
  #3  
Old November 20th 18, 02:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

Agreed, most birds will dive if threatened, so, try to get above or move to the side.
We mostly fly with buzzards as well, good thermal markers. We also get some raptors like hawks, etc. We are also on a red tail migration route, so twice a year we can fly with hundreds if not thousands.
Our 1-26 (002) is good flying with them. It can go slow and tight and glide next to them heading to the next thermal.
I have been hit a few times in a thermal when I may be and get under them. They would tuck and do a talon strike off the leading edge of the wing. No damage, but loud noise.
  #4  
Old November 20th 18, 03:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Oliver[_2_]
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Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

I got into a gaggle of buzzards in the Alps this year. I found the noise of

opening and firmly shutting the airbrakes a couple of times made them
leave.

  #5  
Old November 20th 18, 03:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 05:53:52 -0800, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
wrote:

Agreed, most birds will dive if threatened, so, try to get above or move
to the side.

That's my experience too - but with smaller, solitary hawks. The few
times I've met them in a thermal they've joined flying in the wrong
direction and have not been looking ahead until they've seen me about the
same time as I've seen them. They've looked startled, closed wings and
plummeted. Its quite hard to see small hawks doing this because the
closing speed is quite high.

I've no experience of flying with eagles (except one bald eagle I met at
10,000 over Boulder, CO - he formated above and behind our inside wing
until he'd checked us out and then cleared off). What I have noticed is
that gulls are fine - they join your thermal turning in the same
direction as you and don't cause problems if you join them.

I have a theory that birds that normally soar in groups (gulls, kites,
storks etc) are less likely to hit you while the more solitary hunters
don't really know how to gaggle without having near misses and
collisions. But, what do I know. Can anybody confirm or deny this idea?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
  #6  
Old November 20th 18, 04:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

Le mardi 20 novembre 2018 15:23:20 UTC+1, Martin Gregorie a écritÂ*:
ion as you and don't cause problems if you join them.

I have a theory that birds that normally soar in groups (gulls, kites,
storks etc) are less likely to hit you while the more solitary hunters
don't really know how to gaggle without having near misses and
collisions. But, what do I know. Can anybody confirm or deny this idea?


Prey birds have a natural interest not to be hit by bigger wings, whereas raptors don't care that much because the have no natural enemies in the air.

I fly a lot with eagles and vultures in the Alps. When an eagle is suprised by the glider's appearance, it will stop by putting it's wings to a 90 deg angle of attack, and then fold them and dive away. If it is annoyed by the glider's appearance, it will fly a direct attack with the fangs out. In both situations, being below the eagle is a bad position.

Vultures are quite a different bunch. They don't look out, they don't give a damn, and they don't center thermals.

  #7  
Old November 20th 18, 05:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 7:41:00 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
Le mardi 20 novembre 2018 15:23:20 UTC+1, Martin Gregorie a écritÂ*:
ion as you and don't cause problems if you join them.

I have a theory that birds that normally soar in groups (gulls, kites,
storks etc) are less likely to hit you while the more solitary hunters
don't really know how to gaggle without having near misses and
collisions. But, what do I know. Can anybody confirm or deny this idea?


Prey birds have a natural interest not to be hit by bigger wings, whereas raptors don't care that much because the have no natural enemies in the air.

  #8  
Old November 20th 18, 05:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

You generally can't thermal as slowly as a bird so there is not much of
a problem with hitting them.

I have been attacked by a hawk though it was only a threat and there was
no impact.Â* I did see his talons up close, however.Â* I've also had a
bald eagle acknowledge my presence with a tuck of his wings and an
aileron roll followed by a continuation on his way.

On 11/20/2018 6:07 AM, wrote:
Hi, everyone.

Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.

Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.

These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.

I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.

For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?

In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)


--
Dan, 5J
  #9  
Old November 20th 18, 10:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Posts: 402
Default Playing Chicken With The Birds

Le mardi 20 novembre 2018 17:45:56 UTC+1, Dan Marotta a écritÂ*:
You generally can't thermal as slowly as a bird so there is not much of
a problem with hitting them.

I have been attacked by a hawk though it was only a threat and there was
no impact.Â* I did see his talons up close, however.Â* I've also had a
bald eagle acknowledge my presence with a tuck of his wings and an
aileron roll followed by a continuation on his way.



Tell that the two eagles I just managed to avoid this year. One came within 2 ft of my wing, 2ft from the cockpit.
  #10  
Old November 20th 18, 11:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Cookie
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Posts: 152
Default Playing Chicken With The Birds



Around here we have turkey vultures and black vultures. Black vultures are much better thermallers.

I've had many times bald eagles thermal with me...they don't seem to care....but will look right at you with the expression..."so, what do you think you are doing here?"

I've had them between the wing tip and the canopy...just flying along.

Years back, I did have a red tailed hawk come through the canopy while I was doing 90 knots, ridge flying a 1-34. It was not pretty, for me or the bird. I got cut up by the broken plexi canopy...blood in the eyes...dirt flew up from the floor and got in my eyes too...the bird hit me square in the forehead...felt like a baseball! knocked silly for a few seconds..scared the crap out of me. not very high either...managed to get it together and fly the ridge back home. Windy with no canopy.

Another time, I was doing a scenic ride...I pointed out to my passenger, the same 1-34 which was flying along with a hawk...Next thing, the hawk smashes into the 1-34's stabilizer, and falls lifeless 3500' to the ground. Kind of took the fun out of the "gliding experience" for the passenger!

That pilot was scared crap too..big noise...he opened the spoilers and landed pronto...We could find no damage at all on the stab!

Just one other experience...flying solo in our 2 seat Lark...I caught up to a red tailed hawk. Maybe 4000' but above a working ridge. The hawk went into a dive, so I go the bright idea to follow him. I quickly go up to 120 knots, and the hawk was leaving me in the dust! I leveled out at about 500' above the ridge, but the hawk continued right down and into the trees. Must have had a good meal in sight?


Cookie






On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 8:07:44 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Hi, everyone.

Here in Miami, we have a lot of turkey buzzards. They are VERY good at finding, centering and re-centering thermals. When the lift allows, they will soar (without flapping wings) all the way up into cumulus clouds with 3-4 thousand foot bases.

Because they are so good at the re-centering, I usually soar with them in the same thermal. I try to stay just outside their circle radius so as to (1) not scare them off the thermal and (2) not hit them.

These buzzards are big - almost the size of a turkey and there are often a dozen of them in any given thermal. If we collide it's going to hurt - possibly me, but the glider and the buzzard for sure.

I don't recall reading much in my various glidering books about how to safely soar near the birds, so I'm hoping to find some good advice here.

For example, if I see that I'm on a collision course with a bird and getting close, should I try to turn or dive or climb quickly to avoid it? or should I maintain course or turn away slowly, so as to not confuse the bird regarding my intent?

In short, how does one avoid "playing chicken" with the the birds. :-)


 




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