If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On Sep 17, 8:16*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 17, 2:22*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote: Please correct me if I am wrong. There is still no information that I could find on how the PCAS part of the PowerFlarm will behave in a thermal full of gliders equipped with Mod C transponders and PowerFlarms. I would like to hear how would this unit be usable in such a situation? There is no way signals from Mod C transponders could be correlated with FLARM so the PCAS would just get crazy and the unit unusable, correct? And what about a similar situation where gliders are only equipped with Mod C transponders, I guess the same outcome the unit would be unusable due to many signal sources in small area. I already experienced this with Zaon MRX so I know this is the case. So, how will it work? Anyone truly knows? What I want is a pure FLARM! I don't need the annoyance of a PCAS when I am in a thermal full of gliders equipped with Mod C transponders. I also don't need ADS-B for a while until it will really be usable. Why do I need to be early adopter of the ADS-B when I want to be an early adopter of FLARM. This box looks to me was designed for power pilots who don't fly very close to a bunch of other aircraft equipped with transponders then the PCAS is not a problem. I am not about to purchase another annoying instrument I already have one PCAS. It is great outside glider congested areas but not in a contest. So unless I hear the PCAS issue is resolved in some way I am not going to buy a unit to find out it is not doing what I need to do. I am waiting to be corrected with FACTS. AK This has already been discussed in threads here. As you point out PCAS cannot work in crowded gaggles - so you disable the PCAS alarm in those situation. As I've pointed out before it's not just that it will be annoying, it is that the Mode C transponders fundamentally wont' work properly in crowded gaggles. There is no other way "resolve" this issue, so you turn it off. This is a product designed to work in contest environments, the developers understand these issues. Darryl Yes, it was discussed here without any implementation facts! I am looking for facts and a definite answer rather than "the developers know". Do you know this for a fact that I can turn off PCAS functionality in PowerFlarm without turning off the unit? In Europe where Mod S is required this is not a problem since you can program the codes into the unit and correlate with Flarm, but in US most gliders equipped with transponders are Mod C. So, anyone who knows this for a fact please bring it up. |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
Compared to a standalone PCAS, PowerFLARM has a few things going for
it: - The other PowerFLARM equipped aircraft will transmit the fact that it is transponder equipped in its FLARM signal. PowerFLARM will then attempt a ‘data fusion’ to reduce nuisance alarms. The fusion, off course, works best with Mode S transponders… Once a match between a transponder and a FLARM signal has been made, the higly accurate FLARM data is used and nuisance alarms are minimal. - The PowerFLARM user interface is sophisticated, yet simple. Suppressing the audio of the PCAS alert is trivial, so you will still see on the screen that there are transponder A/C equipped aircraft nearby but it will not constantly beep. - PowerFLARM can easily be updated through the SD Card / Serial / USB port. We have provided FREE updates to all devices ever shipped since 2004, vastly improving their performance and features. So even if we would not get it right at first; dont despair, complain (to us, not RAS)... - We are glider pilots and we will make this work for glider pilots as otherwise we can never again show up on any gliderport, worldwide... Urs FLARM |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On Sep 15, 4:20*pm, Ramy wrote:
On Sep 15, 12:19*pm, Andy wrote: On Sep 15, 11:25*am, Ramy wrote: We would probably have at east one pilot alive today if the FCC approved those units earlier. That seems to assign some blame to FCC. Why would FCC be expected to approve an equipment for which no approval application was made. * Why would anyone have made an approval application for an equipment which was not marketed for use in USA and prohibited by the manufacture(s) from being used in USA. For those that think the door will be open to import the older FLARM units to US and use them without FCC approval, don't forget that the unit's firmware has an embedded drop dead date. *It would be very easy for the next firmware cycle to inhibit operation for GPS locations in USA. Am I the only one that suspects a large part of the US PowerFLARM cost is going towards a legal fund? Andy You may be right but my point is that, as often the case, we have the technology (which should normally be the biggest challenge) but it almost always hampered by paperwork/FCC/FAA/liablity/(name your favorite bureaucrat agency here). This is much less so with consumer devices. I understand this is to prevent chaos, but if so, how come everyone can mail order an aviation radio and interfere with ATC if they feal like? Ramy As usual, reality is a bit more complicated... In USA, the power levels allowed on the free-for-all frequencies are higher than other countries. That means the background noise level on these frequencies is higher from other devices. PowerFLARM has a more powerful radio transmitter than the classic FLARM, and is thus is more able to punch through the noise. So, while a classic FLARM might operate here, in addition to being illegal it won't work as well. The other guy *might* hear you... Hope that helps ! You guys should fly more and speculate less ! See ya, Dave "YO electric" |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On Sep 15, 6:02*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I anticipate getting one next year, but since I already have a transponder and MRX, I'm in no great need, so I'll let the other pilots be the early adopters of the (initially) scarce units. Eric will thus miss out on the introductory price for orders placed by year-end... See ya, Dave "YO electric" |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On Sep 19, 8:12*am, Dave Nadler wrote:
You guys should fly more and speculate less ! See ya, Dave "YO electric" There would be no need for "speculation" if there were "specs" On the one hand we are told US PowerFLARM is the same as "rest of the world" PowerFLARM except for IGC recorder approval, but now you seem to be suggesting that US PowerFLARM has different RF specs from the "rest of the world" PowerFLARM. Maybe the RF TX power is controlled according to region as determined by GPS position and the RF sections are identical? This is the first I have heard about higher RF power output. Up to now the only information has been that the receiver is more sensitive than legacy FLARM. Now I'm going flying - someone has to pull the rope. Andy (GY) |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On Sep 19, 12:28*pm, Andy wrote:
On Sep 19, 8:12*am, Dave Nadler wrote: You guys should fly more and speculate less ! See ya, Dave "YO electric" There would be no need for "speculation" if there were "specs" On the one hand we are told US PowerFLARM is the same as "rest of the world" PowerFLARM except for IGC recorder approval, but now you seem to be suggesting that US PowerFLARM has different RF specs from the "rest of the world" PowerFLARM. *Maybe the RF TX power is controlled according to region as determined by GPS position and the RF sections are identical? This is the first I have heard about higher RF power output. *Up to now the only information has been that the receiver is more sensitive than legacy FLARM. Now I'm going flying - someone has to pull the rope. Andy (GY) As I wrote: PowerFLARM has a more powerful transmitter compared to classic FLARM. Regardless of what country it is sold in. The more powerful transmitter is needed in USA. Location-specific behavior is an entirely separate matter: To meet local requirements, in Europe the transmit power will be lower than USA, controlled by software (no hardware difference). I will add a couple of FAQ entries later... Glad you've gone flying and stopped speculating ;-) Best Regards, Dave |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On Sep 19, 7:09*am, " wrote:
Compared to a standalone PCAS, PowerFLARM has a few things going for it: - The other PowerFLARM equipped aircraft will transmit the fact that it is transponder equipped in its FLARM signal. * PowerFLARM will then attempt a ‘data fusion’ to reduce nuisance alarms. * The fusion, off course, works best with Mode S transponders… * Once a match between a transponder and a FLARM signal has been made, * the higly accurate FLARM data is used and nuisance alarms are minimal. - The PowerFLARM user interface is sophisticated, yet simple. Suppressing the audio of the PCAS alert is trivial, so you will still see on the screen that there are transponder A/C equipped aircraft nearby but it will not constantly beep. - PowerFLARM can easily be updated through the SD Card / Serial / USB port. We have provided FREE updates to all devices ever shipped since 2004, vastly improving their performance and features. * So even if we would not get it right at first; dont despair, complain (to us, not RAS)... - We are glider pilots and we will make this work for glider pilots as otherwise we can never again show up on any gliderport, worldwide... Urs FLARM Ability to switch off the noise is a good start. I hope the same will be true for voice synthesizer (in respect to PCAS) when it becomes available. If that is the case you got one more customer. |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On 9/19/2010 8:13 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Sep 15, 6:02 pm, Eric wrote: I anticipate getting one next year, but since I already have a transponder and MRX, I'm in no great need, so I'll let the other pilots be the early adopters of the (initially) scarce units. Eric will thus miss out on the introductory price for orders placed by year-end... I do have a ping set in my calendar for late December ... ;-) -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me) - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
I've added a couple of FAQ entries and
edited the comparison table. Hopefully this becomes a bit clearer... Best Regards, Dave "YO electric" http://www.gliderpilot.org/FLARM http://www.gliderpilot.org/FlarmFAQ http://www.gliderpilot.org/FLARM-Comparisons |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Whats better, a troll free community, or a troll resistant community? | buttman | Piloting | 3 | October 18th 08 06:15 PM |
Scottish Gliding Union FLARM trial results | Dan G | Soaring | 0 | December 27th 07 12:49 PM |
Av Community | Flyin' High! | Piloting | 4 | April 30th 06 03:47 AM |
Av Community | Flyin' High! | Owning | 0 | April 29th 06 03:09 PM |
Leaving the community | David Brooks | Piloting | 770 | November 29th 04 01:07 AM |