JFK

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Bob Noel" wrote:
But I would love to discuss this with someone who thinks
that honesty, integrity, and moral are not important
characteristics of the best leaders. I am very interested in
what characteristics they think make the best leaders (which,'
of course, also wouldn't have any bearing on what actually
does make the best leaders...now my head hurts.)

Mine too.
Especially since what you mean by "best" is so debateable. If you mean
"most able to sway the masses" then a great gift of gab makes a great
leader, e.g. Adolph Hitler, Winston Churchill and Ronald Reagan (no, I'm
not saying they are morally equivalent).



Churchill wasn't above a bit of whoring with his American friend
whose name I forget. His honesty was severely compromised by
having to conceal the success of the Bletchly codebreakers, leading
to many tens of thousands of deaths in the British cities which
went unprotected as a result. Such is the nature of politics.

But he _projected_ the aura of honesty and integrity in a way that
is quite remarkable. Who, friend of foe, could ever have been in
any doubt that he meant what he said in his "...fight them on the
beaches..." speech
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwt...l_audio.shtmll)?
And he wrote it himself.

Add to that good humor, intelligence, hard work to the point of
exhaustion and willingness to share the hardships of the people.
"Ask not what your country can do for you..." my arse. Its
strained grammar hurts my ears for a start, and its substance
an aftertaste of empty rhetoric.

Honesty and integrity that matter to a point, but it is the *perception*
that trumps the reality. Face it, Kennedy was lucky. If people
knew 40 years back that he was permanently on pain killers and
frequently incapacitated with his Addison's disease, perhaps this
strange personality cult would never have got started. The
thought of a strung-out junkie deciding the fate of the world from
the safety of his nuclear bunker makes me shiver. A true leader
would have excused himself -- heck, he wouldn't even have been
medically fit to fly my Cessna -- and we're just damn lucky that
today we're not all living in caves (the few of us that would have
been left).

--
Dr. Tony Cox
Citrus Controls Inc.
e-mail:
http://CitrusControls.com/

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

He did claim to be a jelly donut (literal translation of "Ich bin ein
Berliner"), but the wall that went up on his watch came down on the hated
Reagan's watch.



I thought a "Berliner" was a type of sausage. Anyway, the picture
of an earnest JFK, waffling away in such seriousness, while the
locals tittered and guffawed must be the highpoint of his entire
presidency. Wish I'd been there.

--
Dr. Tony Cox
Citrus Controls Inc.
e-mail:
http://CitrusControls.com/

Tony Cox wrote:
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

He did claim to be a jelly donut (literal translation of "Ich bin ein
Berliner"), but the wall that went up on his watch came down on the hated
Reagan's watch.

I thought a "Berliner" was a type of sausage. Anyway, the picture
of an earnest JFK, waffling away in such seriousness, while the
locals tittered and guffawed must be the highpoint of his entire
presidency. Wish I'd been there.

Sorry to disappoint, but I was there (attending a German "Hochschule" that
year) and heard no comments at all on the minor grammatical error from
Germans. I only saw mention of it in the American press. Any "tittering"
must have been drowned out in the loud applause and cheering in response to
that statement of his.

mike regish wrote:

So I guess you're going with the "faulty intelligence" spin, then. And you
believe that Bush had the best interests of Iraq and the US as real reasons
for pushing this war. After all, that's what he keeps saying now.

Yeah. "Buhs" is just a paragon of virtue.

OK.

And did Clinton have the best interests of Iraq and the US as real reasons when
he launched a massive offensive in Baghdad in 1998 "Operation Desert Fox"? He
certainly felt he did. And in Bosnia, when thousands were slaughtered in the
air in the guise of ending "genocide"? Or in Haiti? Or in Somalia?

Now, in Iraq, hundreds of thousands of graves HAVE been found. The torture
chambers (some of) HAVE been found. And even CNN now admits that it covered up
the torture and brutal murder it knew was going on in Iraq for a decade, so
that it could stay on Hussein's good side.

Don't take my word, Click here to hear Clinton say it in his own words:
http://tinyurl.com/67rz (small audio file)

Thank goodness we finally have a President who not only gets the message, but
takes action.

P.S. "Buhs" is actually a pretty apt name for him, considering his party
days.

P.S. Unlike say, Clinton's party days? Or does he count as a saint as you
bring someone's alleged personal life into the picture yourself?

Montblack wrote:

("C J Campbell" wrote)
snip
He did claim to be a jelly donut (literal translation of "Ich bin ein
Berliner"), but the wall that went up on his watch came down on the hated
Reagan's watch.

Fall of The Wall was 1989 - Bush's watch.

Folks may have marched up to it on Reagan's watch, but it was Bush who was
on station when she toppled.

Your point doesn't make sense. Nixon was on station when Apollo 11 landed on
the moon, but it is safe to "march it up" to Kennedy.

"Icebound" wrote in message .rogers.com...


What is it with the US policy about Cuba anyway?

We should have never given it back after the Spanish-American war :-)

"Tom S." wrote in message ...

Since LBJ's wife was a major shareholder in the transportation company
(marine shipping) that had virtually a monopoly contract to ship war
material to Vietnam...well, you can guess the rest.

Lady Bird was owner of the Johnson businesses in name only.

"Tom S." wrote in message ...

The biggest problem is that Joseph Kennedy was hardly the type to instill
a sound sense
of morals in his sons.

You mean backing the Nazi's...even after being named ambassador to England
and the Battle of Britain...

That's just the tip of the iceberg. His whole life was devoted to the advancement
of the Kennedy name in advance of all else.

in article , Big John at
wrote on 11/14/03 7:38 AM:

40 years ago today I was ferrying a F-89J from the Maine Air Guard at
Bangor, ME to the Oregon Air Guard at Portland OR. Chugging along at
20K, keeping under the big jet stream blowing east, I was about 150
out of Oklahoma City, my next refueling stop, when ATC came up on
frequency and announced that President Kennedy had been shot in Dallas
and was dead.

May he rest in peace.

Big John

You know, I NEVER would've guessed in a MILLION YEARS that a passing mention
of this anniversary would touch off a never-ending thread filled with
opposing ideologies, warring political philosophies and decades-old
resentments. I mean, WHAT A COMPLETE SURPRISE.

in article , Bob Noel
at lid wrote on 11/14/03 11:15 AM:

In article md9tb.147048$mZ5.1005335@attbi_s54, "Michael 182"
wrote:

Sorry, I don't see any correlation between fidelity, infidelity, and
public
service.

In most courses/seminars about leadership, surveyed people
consistently believe that honesty, integrity, morality are highly
valued characteristics of the best leaders.

Where does drunk driving fit into all of that?