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#1
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IR checkrides
Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC.
Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride then its done in IMC. I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give the examiner something more to concentrate on too. A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster. Phil |
#2
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On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 23:18:19 -0000, "Phil McAverty"
wrote: Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC. Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride then its done in IMC. I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give the examiner something more to concentrate on too. A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster. Phil Many examiners will not do an IR checkride in IMC. I believe in order to do so, the examiner would be considered PIC, since you'd need to file on his ticket. Also certain manuvours will be more difficult to accomidate under IMC (i.e. unusual attitudes: I believe you'd need to request a block clearance to pull it off) Your best best is to call your examiner ahead of time and get his opinion. Marcus |
#3
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No, they have to be done in VFR.
There's several reasons for this. One of them is that some of the tasks required (like unsual attitudes) would require a block altitude clearance and clearance to deviate from an assigned heading. Obviously in busy terminal airspace that could be difficult to do. On the legal side, the FAA requires the inspector or DE to make it clear to the applicant that he or she is the pilot in command, not the person giving the checkride. That being the case, since the applicant is not instrument rated he or she can not act as PIC of an aircraft operating under IFR. Dave Reinhart Phil McAverty wrote: Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC. Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride then its done in IMC. I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give the examiner something more to concentrate on too. A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster. Phil |
#4
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"David Reinhart" wrote in message ... No, they have to be done in VFR. There's several reasons for this. One of them is that some of the tasks required (like unsual attitudes) would require a block altitude clearance and clearance to deviate from an assigned heading. Obviously in busy terminal airspace that could be difficult to do. On the legal side, the FAA requires the inspector or DE to make it clear to the applicant that he or she is the pilot in command, not the person giving the checkride. That being the case, since the applicant is not instrument rated he or she can not act as PIC of an aircraft operating under IFR. Thanks, that all seems to make sense. My next question, which State has the smoothest air, you know the type that makes you feel as if you are gliding on glass. |
#5
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"David Reinhart" wrote:
No, they have to be done in VFR. There exist counterexamples. My own instrument check ride was conducted mostly under IFR. We were in visual flight conditions -- perhaps not always legally VMC, but that's not relevant to the legalities of flying under IFR. There's several reasons for this. One of them is that some of the tasks required (like unsual attitudes) would require a block altitude clearance and clearance to deviate from an assigned heading. Obviously in busy terminal airspace that could be difficult to do. We did cancel IFR for this purpose, but that was only about five minutes out of a check ride that ran between 1.5 and 2.0 hours. On the legal side, the FAA requires the inspector or DE to make it clear to the applicant that he or she is the pilot in command, not the person giving the checkride. That being the case, since the applicant is not instrument rated he or she can not act as PIC of an aircraft operating under IFR. On the legal side, who would be the PIC for a Private check ride? Once again the applicant is not technically qualified. It would be quite a contradiction to say that a DE is PIC for the Private ride but not for the Instrument ride. |
#6
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Phil McAverty wrote:
Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC. Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride then its done in IMC. I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give the examiner something more to concentrate on too. A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster. Phil I'm sure it could be done, at least if you did all your air work on top VFR. But it would be so impractical, I doubt anyone would do it. John Roncallo |
#7
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Read 61.47(b). You can try to talk the DE into being PIC...good luck.
Bob Gardner "Phil McAverty" wrote in message ... Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC. Not being from the US, some States must have far worse weather than others and so I kinda assume that if its IMC weather on the day of the checkride then its done in IMC. I must admit that I wanted to have a checkride then doing it in IMC would be my preference. For a start it would be more comfortable than wearing a hood and be distracted by the effort of trying not to look. It might also give the examiner something more to concentrate on too. A checkride passed in IMC must be a big confidence booster. Phil |
#8
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On 2003-12-06 15:18:19 -0800, "Phil McAverty" said:
Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC. Unless something has changed recently, yes they can. But in general, it's probably not going to happen. A friend of mine used to be an examiner. She told me that examiners are officially encouraged not to give checkrides in IMC. She went against that advice and an applicant show her just how messed up he could get. She decided not to do checkrides in IMC after that. -- Larry Fransson Seattle, WA |
#9
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"Larry Fransson" wrote in message news:2003120623064950073%lfransson@comcastnet... On 2003-12-06 15:18:19 -0800, "Phil McAverty" said: Just wondering whether IR checkrides can be carried out in real IMC. Unless something has changed recently, yes they can. But in general, it's probably not going to happen. A friend of mine used to be an examiner. She told me that examiners are officially encouraged not to give checkrides in IMC. She went against that advice and an applicant show her just how messed up he could get. She decided not to do checkrides in IMC after that. That seems to be the best reason of all for doing checkrides in IMC. Seems to be a dumb policy to do a checkride in VMC and then letting them go off into IMC. I have a UK IMC rating which involves 15 hours of Instrument training. I hardly use it except to do a bit of VMC on top. The best thing I ever got out of the training was that a) 15 hours training showed me how little ability I really had and how deadly the IMC environment was, b) There is a world of difference between passing the checkride and using the rating. I fly for fun not to scare the s**t out of myself so flying in IMC falls into the "not fun" end of the spectrum. IMC in uncontrolled airspace is another drawback and with class A airspace here beginning at surface level in some places (EGLL) and other class A at FL35 it is hard to fly on top. Admitted in UK there is no land higher than 4000 feet but we are all compressed into a narrow band, not much bigger than Florida. I could get to enjoy IMC flying but I would need to be doing it most of the time; and to do that means being paid to do it. But then when there are schedules to keep etc I suppose it become like many jobs, a bit of a grind. The irony is that a FAA/IR will qualify for a UK IMC rating with only limited privileges in controlled airspace (class D only). The FAA/IR pilot can file IFR and fly in class A in the UK if the aircraft is US registered but not if the aircraft is UK registered. It was only until recently that ua US IR pilot had to do 55 hours training to convert to a UK IR |
#10
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Phil McAverty wrote:
That seems to be the best reason of all for doing checkrides in IMC. Seems to be a dumb policy to do a checkride in VMC and then letting them go off into IMC. In the USA, there are many places that rarely if ever ever see IMC. Such a policy would prohibit check rides there. The irony is that a FAA/IR will qualify for a UK IMC rating with only limited privileges in controlled airspace (class D only). The FAA/IR pilot can file IFR and fly in class A in the UK if the aircraft is US registered but not if the aircraft is UK registered. Where is Class A airspace used in the UK? In the US, it is only 18,000+ ft MSL, but I understand that it is used differently in other jurisdictions. |
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