Getting confused with ATC order...Violation?

Mxsmanic wrote:

Have you simulated dropping a cellphone on the floor and it bounces down
by the rudder pedals somewhere?

I don't use cell phones while operating vehicles.

Probably never even heard of an E6B, have you?

MSFS doesn't simulate partial-G situations in extreme turbulence where
small objects might work themselves loose.

A great thing to add to MSFS would be the seat sliding backward on
takeoff. A friend of mine's father tested an airplane for a buyer, and
as he rotated for takeoff the seat slid all the way backward such that
he couldn't reach the rudder pedal. Fortunately, he managed to not pull
the yoke back with him and cause departure spin.

That would be a spectacular failure to model for a flight simulator.

gatt wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:

Have you simulated dropping a cellphone on the floor and it bounces
down by the rudder pedals somewhere?

I don't use cell phones while operating vehicles.

Probably never even heard of an E6B, have you?

MSFS doesn't simulate partial-G situations in extreme turbulence where
small objects might work themselves loose.

A great thing to add to MSFS would be the seat sliding backward on
takeoff. A friend of mine's father tested an airplane for a buyer, and
as he rotated for takeoff the seat slid all the way backward such that
he couldn't reach the rudder pedal. Fortunately, he managed to not pull
the yoke back with him and cause departure spin.

That would be a spectacular failure to model for a flight simulator.


This has been a long time issue in adjustable light plane seats,
especially Cessna seats. The issue at one time was so prevalent we added
a mandatory seat pin check to the run up checklist to insure any seat
adjustments made after entering the airplane were solidly made with the
pins in the locking holes.

I suggest even today that this check be made when flying any airplane
with a sliding seat.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:

This has been a long time issue in adjustable light plane seats,
especially Cessna seats. The issue at one time was so prevalent we added
a mandatory seat pin check to the run up checklist to insure any seat
adjustments made after entering the airplane were solidly made with the
pins in the locking holes.

I suggest even today that this check be made when flying any airplane
with a sliding seat.

Yessir, that's what made me think of it. I was flying right seat in a
'73 Piper Arrow II for the first time on Saturday and couldn't get the
seat to latch until I banged on it. Not exactly a confidence booster.


-c

gatt wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:

This has been a long time issue in adjustable light plane seats,
especially Cessna seats. The issue at one time was so prevalent we
added a mandatory seat pin check to the run up checklist to insure any
seat adjustments made after entering the airplane were solidly made
with the pins in the locking holes.

I suggest even today that this check be made when flying any airplane
with a sliding seat.

Yessir, that's what made me think of it. I was flying right seat in a
'73 Piper Arrow II for the first time on Saturday and couldn't get the
seat to latch until I banged on it. Not exactly a confidence booster.


-c

Not a biggie really. Just put it on your runup checklist.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Apr 8, 7:20 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
gatt wrote:

Not a biggie really. Just put it on your runup checklist.

--
Dudley Henriques

There's an STC for C172s for a roller lock -- won't let the pilot seat
slide back more than 1/3rd of the full travel.

No idea on price but should be worth it for any 172 owner...

There's an NTSB on a similar situation but with different cause:
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?e...02X05546&key=1

Dan Mc

In article ,
says...
Dave Doe writes:

The short of it is, flying a sim is so far removed from the experience
of the real thing, that pilots are still required (thank fuk) to fly the
real thing when training.

That is somewhat a legacy of the past; it won't always be that way. Flying a
large airliner, for example, is sufficiently different from flying a small
plane that there isn't necessarily a clear advantage to compelling prospective
pilots to do the latter before the former. With the increasing demand for
pilots, particularly outside developed countries, training specific to
commercial flying with simulators alone will inevitably become common practice
in the future.

This DOES apply to ATC comms too.

So how do air traffic controllers manage to handle communications without any
piloting experience?

By making it a part of the students ATC syllabus of course!

Here in New Zealand all ATC students spend time in the "third" seat (on
73's I think) so they can gain a first-hand perspective of pilot loading
at the various stages of flight.



Being on your sim (as you've never
flown the real thing) your mind *CANNOT* imagine what it would really be
like, you can only assume and guess and imagine.

Speak for yourself. What I can imagine might be quite different from what you
can imagine.

Yeah that's the problem, you can't imagine the real-world scenario
accurately. Pilots can, non-pilots can't. You can't win this argument,
I have evidence, you have none.


I'm reminded of an article I read once on the reaction of a primitive tribe
when it was shown images of itself in a movie. The tribe members were unable
to interpret the images because they were flat, and they apparently lacked the
ability to set aside this difference in order to extract some utility from the
movie (or they were unwilling to use it).

Have you simulated (or even imagined) smoke coming out the heater vents?

No. How does smoke get into the heater vents in a Baron?

It's a simulator, so change planes moron. Can't do it?


Does your simulator simulate that?

No.

What about a low setting sun, does it really dazzle you?

Yes, you can simulate that, but I usually have it turned off.

You didn't properly answer the question, does it really dazzle you? Of
course it doesn't, it's only a monitor.

Have you simulated dropping a cellphone on the floor and it bounces down
by the rudder pedals somewhere?

I don't use cell phones while operating vehicles.

You are a waste of any further time - can't you use your imagination (it
doesn't have to be a cellphone, it could be your flight-computer (as
another poster suggested)).

Come on, wake up! Use your imagination that you claim to have and stop
negatively replying to questions - you know very well what's meant.


Would you consider that to be a potential problem?

Not for someone who keeps the cell phone stowed during flight.

You really don't have any imagination do you. We're talking about a
hard object that made it's way down by the rudder pedals. It doesn't
matter what it is (specifically! - and you know that!).

Please re-answer the question.


snipped your mis-reading - and therefore irrelevant reply to the rest

--
Duncan

On Apr 9, 11:50 am, Dave Doe wrote:

Here in New Zealand all ATC students spend time in the "third" seat (on
73's I think) so they can gain a first-hand perspective of pilot loading
at the various stages of flight.

Thank your lucky stars that we're here and he's hiding in a bedroom in
France

gatt writes:

Probably never even heard of an E6B, have you?

I have one, but it's not a cell phone.

MSFS doesn't simulate partial-G situations in extreme turbulence where
small objects might work themselves loose.

So?

A great thing to add to MSFS would be the seat sliding backward on
takeoff. A friend of mine's father tested an airplane for a buyer, and
as he rotated for takeoff the seat slid all the way backward such that
he couldn't reach the rudder pedal. Fortunately, he managed to not pull
the yoke back with him and cause departure spin.

And this is a common occurrence in aircraft? Common enough to justify
simulation?

That would be a spectacular failure to model for a flight simulator.

Flight simulators model the most probable situations first.

Dave Doe writes:

By making it a part of the students ATC syllabus of course!

So why would non-pilot experience work for ATC, but not anyone else?

Yeah that's the problem, you can't imagine the real-world scenario
accurately. Pilots can, non-pilots can't. You can't win this argument,
I have evidence, you have none.

As I've said, you don't know what I can or cannot imagine. I have very rarely
been surprised.

It's a simulator, so change planes moron. Can't do it?

Why would I want to stop flying the airplane I prefer? Another one of the
advantages to simulation is that you can fly what you want.

You didn't properly answer the question, does it really dazzle you?

Sometimes. In any case, you can't really see much of anything.

Of course it doesn't, it's only a monitor.

So?

You are a waste of any further time - can't you use your imagination (it
doesn't have to be a cellphone, it could be your flight-computer (as
another poster suggested)).

I can use my imagination, but using a cell phone is unsafe.

If it doesn't have to be a cell phone, then logically it could be just about
anything, which means that it isn't necessary to simulate everything, as I've
already pointed out.

You really don't have any imagination do you. We're talking about a
hard object that made it's way down by the rudder pedals. It doesn't
matter what it is (specifically! - and you know that!).

What matters is that it won't make its way down by the rudder pedals if you
stow it properly.

On Apr 10, 4:12 am, Pont Neuf Troll Patrol wrote:
ANTHONY ATKIELSKI AKA MXMANIAC AKA WJRFLYBOY AKA DAN MC WRITES:

I can use my imagination, but using a cell phone is unsafe.

Add using a cell phone to the list of things Tonie is afraid to do.

I wonder if the comms equipment in an aircraft engender the same fear
in our imitation aviator?