If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Aviation crash videos on-line
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ink.net... "Iwan Bogels" wrote in message ... Hello Dudley, Just curious: Did I ever state I was pushing flight safety ? No you didn't. That's why I'm taking issue with you. If you had stated a flight safety relationship with your work you would have had no problem with me but you didn't do that, and you make absolutely no mention of any flight safety connection with your work on your site. The complete absence of the flight safety issue in your "hobby" of showing crash video indicates to me that your interest in filming and bringing attention to your work lies in other directions than the flight safety issue; something with which I, as an ex- demonstration pilot take VERY seriously! I've seen this type of exploitation done by both amatuer and professional photographers all through my professional career. You have cross posted your web site address along with an open invitation to view your "work" on at least 5 aviation related newsgroups; steering "interested parties" to your web site to partake in your "hobby" of filming and showing airplane crashes; all without one single word about flight safety. No...you're not the least bit interested in flight safety, and you'll never sell that line to me in a million years. You have every right to use bandwidth to state your case, and I can assure you I'll use the same bandwidth to state my answer to your case. You and I are natural enemies. I'll never buy what you're selling here. Including the jet teams from 2 countries, I've seen 32 of my close friends and fellow demonstration pilots die in crashes. I can assure you that to me, an airplane crash is a lot more than how you view them......what is it you said on your site......a HOBBY!!! Sorry; no sale with me anyway. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z's please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet 30GB in bandwidth in 7 hours put a quick stop to it. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Yep, it did. It just showed how many people are interested in the subject.
I understand Dudley's point of view, but I see things differently. No problem, that's why we live in a free world. And in case you are in doubt about my intentions, check http://www.dappa.nl/photos.htm to see the work that I produce myself. I am pretty sure that an ex-demonstration pilot like Dudley knows how to appreciate that. All the best from the Netherlands, Iwan Bogels DAPPA "F.L. Whiteley" schreef in bericht ... "Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ink.net... "Iwan Bogels" wrote in message ... Hello Dudley, Just curious: Did I ever state I was pushing flight safety ? No you didn't. That's why I'm taking issue with you. If you had stated a flight safety relationship with your work you would have had no problem with me but you didn't do that, and you make absolutely no mention of any flight safety connection with your work on your site. The complete absence of the flight safety issue in your "hobby" of showing crash video indicates to me that your interest in filming and bringing attention to your work lies in other directions than the flight safety issue; something with which I, as an ex- demonstration pilot take VERY seriously! I've seen this type of exploitation done by both amatuer and professional photographers all through my professional career. You have cross posted your web site address along with an open invitation to view your "work" on at least 5 aviation related newsgroups; steering "interested parties" to your web site to partake in your "hobby" of filming and showing airplane crashes; all without one single word about flight safety. No...you're not the least bit interested in flight safety, and you'll never sell that line to me in a million years. You have every right to use bandwidth to state your case, and I can assure you I'll use the same bandwidth to state my answer to your case. You and I are natural enemies. I'll never buy what you're selling here. Including the jet teams from 2 countries, I've seen 32 of my close friends and fellow demonstration pilots die in crashes. I can assure you that to me, an airplane crash is a lot more than how you view them......what is it you said on your site......a HOBBY!!! Sorry; no sale with me anyway. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z's please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet 30GB in bandwidth in 7 hours put a quick stop to it. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Iwan Bogels wrote:
Yep, it did. It just showed how many people are interested in the subject. I understand Dudley's point of view, but I see things differently. No problem, that's why we live in a free world. And in case you are in doubt about my intentions, check http://www.dappa.nl/photos.htm to see the work that I produce myself. I am pretty sure that an ex-demonstration pilot like Dudley knows how to appreciate that. All the best from the Netherlands, Iwan Bogels DAPPA Iwan, your aviation photography is top notch - really beautiful stuff, and it is apparent that you have a love for aircraft and aviation. What I think Dudley takes issue with is context - you provided none. Not in your original post, and not on your web page. I think it's important to acknowledge that in some of these accidents good people lost their lives or were hurt, and that this should be kept in mind when watching this. If you put this stuff up on your website, you have to accept that some people will download this and completely miss the grave implications of what they are watching. So I think it will be helpful if you provide a framework of why you are sharing these videos if you don't want people to misinterpret what you are doing. I happen to think, like Jay Honeck, that there is nothing wrong with putting up a bunch of aviation crash videos on your web site in and of itself. But if it's in the context of "here, check out these COOL videos!!!" you'll upset people, and rightly so. Flesh out some more context and make your intentions clearer, and you'll do better. Having said that, in my own aviation video gallery http://www.avivhod.com/gallery/AviationVideos I decided that it's too difficult to convey the right message when posting aviation crash videos, so I avoided posting them. Other people can do that, but I decided that it's not for me. Blue Skies, Aviv |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:I8k_c.116580$Fg5.83066@attbi_s53... What, precisely, do you see wrong with viewing aircraft crashes for reasons other than flight safety? I feel no need to justify my reasoning to you on the subject of viewing aircraft crash videos outside the safety context, any more than I require you justify yourself to me. I'm not demanding that people stop watching crash videos put on the net .. I have merely commented on how I personally, view the practice. What you and others watch and enjoy watching is your business, as is what you feel you are "learning" from the experience; and you can do it without demanding I justify "precisely" my feelings on the matter for you. I have simply stated my disgust with those who find this type of thing "entertaining" from the viewing standpoint, and my disgust for those who take these pictures and show them in public outside the flight safety context as a "hobby", which is what has been done in this instance. I base these feelings on a lifetime of airshow demonstration and flight safety exposure. You and others as well of course have your own perspective whatever that might be. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z's please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
It's all the cross posting
"Aviv Hod" wrote in message ... Doug FM wrote: And the site is down after one day, that's gotta be some sort of record Ever hear of the "Slashdot effect?" When a link makes it to the front page of a popular website like slashdot.org , the web server of the relevant page has a tendancy to start combusting into a huge puff of vaporized silicon :-) They can take down a website in minutes... I was surprised that all those videos didn't take down the server earlier. -Aviv |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
US tax dollars at work and play
but also shows the risk and sacrifice of eternal diligence in the defense of freedom "Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:I8k_c.116580$Fg5.83066@attbi_s53... No...you're not the least bit interested in flight safety, and you'll never sell that line to me in a million years. What, precisely, do you see wrong with viewing aircraft crashes for reasons other than flight safety? Humans are fascinated with video-taped accidents of ALL kinds, simply because they are so rare. The ability to capture an accident on video, for later viewing, is one of the true marvels of the last 100 years. Personally, I view aviation videos for the thrill, as well as for any "flight safety" aspects I may glean from them. Quite frankly, the odds of my obtaining any useful information from watching an F-4 bolt over the side of an aircraft carrier are almost nil -- but that doesn't make watching the video any less fascinating. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"SelwayKid" wrote in message om... "Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ink.net... "SelwayKid" wrote in message om... "Iwan Bogels" wrote in message ... Dear aviation enthusiast, Over the years we have collected loads of spectacular video footage. This includes about 100 video clips with aviation mishaps, accidents and crashes. Today we have opened http://www.dappa.nl/crash.htm which shows the first 15 videos. More videos will follow soon, so keep checking for updates ! Best regards, Iwan Bogels & Tieme Festner DAPPA I visited the site and hope to see more of the clips. I find them to be of instructional value in accident prevention. There are clips I have seen in the past and have not been able to find since. Hopefully they will be available with your research and efforts. R. Kemp CFII/RAM These people are in no way whatsoever even remotely involved with aviation flight safety. By their own word, they exist solely for the purpose of enhancing their "hobby" of aviation photography. A crash to them is nothing more than an opportunity to record the sensationalism involved which is exactly what they are doing on their web site. I see not ONE publication on their site that could be linked to the subject of flight safety. I suggest that if you want to view crash photography that IS related to flight safety, you purchase a copy of "Zero Error Margin" by Gen Des Barker, a book on air safety that weighs 7 pounds and is the complete snip.... Hey Dudley Thats cool if we disagree. However, reading a 7 pound book takes a lot longer than seeing some of the clips. It doesn't matter to me how or why the clips were obtained unless they engineered the accidents/incidents purely for prurient interest. The fact remains the accidents/incidents happened and were captured on film, then gathered in one place for those of us who don't have time or desire to wade through any 7# book. Like you, I've been involved in aviation for about 50 years. We've exchanged credentials and I think have mutual respect for them so its a matter of personal opinion based on our personal experiences. The fact that so many people want to see these clips, regardless of their personal reasons or motivations indicates a tremendous interest. The clips work far better than trying to replicate them on a blackboard or with hand gestures. I feel they are a great training aid. Best professional regards R. Kemp and definitive account of the air safety issues involved with many of the videos and photographs these two people are putting up for viewing on their site without any reference at all to the flight safety issue. I've been involved directly with flight safety issues for fifty years and am in fact deeply involved with Gen Barker's book on airshow safety. I know the people involved in the safety business, and these two are NOT pushing flight safety! Please understand I have no problem with you having an opposing opinion about what these people are presenting. I just don't agree with you. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z's please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet like you guys to take this off USENET though |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Nah, drudgereport knocked over newscientist.com earlier this week with the
seti announcement long before it got /.ed This site didn't get knocked over, they did it to themselves by cross posting something that invokes a look and much curiousity without understanding this web business. Now they can't afford the freight. Bandwidth is not free. "Doug FM" wrote in message le.rogers.com... And the site is down after one day, that's gotta be some sort of record "Iwan Bogels" wrote in message ... Dear aviation enthusiast, Over the years we have collected loads of spectacular video footage. This includes about 100 video clips with aviation mishaps, accidents and crashes. Today we have opened http://www.dappa.nl/crash.htm which shows the first 15 videos. More videos will follow soon, so keep checking for updates ! Best regards, Iwan Bogels & Tieme Festner DAPPA |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Dudley Henriques wrote:
Sorry; no sale with me anyway. I see their URL finally disappeared from your responses, Dudley. Editing is good. The fact that they cross-posted to such a mix of NGs tells me their discretion is questionable, and they may not appreciate your objections. I would have had more respect for them had they presented these videos in some sort of a safety-related context, but then a moral sense of responsibility is not something held in high esteem these days. On the other hand, I gain some insight into the physical dynamics of air crashes from seeing this type of video, and I think that is valuable. Cognizance of the human toll, about which you have correctly reminded us, is essential. Jack |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
"Aviv Hod" wrote in message ... Iwan Bogels wrote: Yep, it did. It just showed how many people are interested in the subject. I understand Dudley's point of view, but I see things differently. No problem, that's why we live in a free world. And in case you are in doubt about my intentions, check http://www.dappa.nl/photos.htm to see the work that I produce myself. I am pretty sure that an ex-demonstration pilot like Dudley knows how to appreciate that. All the best from the Netherlands, Iwan Bogels DAPPA Iwan, your aviation photography is top notch - really beautiful stuff, and it is apparent that you have a love for aircraft and aviation. What I think Dudley takes issue with is context - you provided none. Not in your original post, and not on your web page. I think it's important to acknowledge that in some of these accidents good people lost their lives or were hurt, and that this should be kept in mind when watching this. If you put this stuff up on your website, you have to accept that some people will download this and completely miss the grave implications of what they are watching. So I think it will be helpful if you provide a framework of why you are sharing these videos if you don't want people to misinterpret what you are doing. I happen to think, like Jay Honeck, that there is nothing wrong with putting up a bunch of aviation crash videos on your web site in and of itself. But if it's in the context of "here, check out these COOL videos!!!" you'll upset people, and rightly so. Flesh out some more context and make your intentions clearer, and you'll do better. Having said that, in my own aviation video gallery http://www.avivhod.com/gallery/AviationVideos I decided that it's too difficult to convey the right message when posting aviation crash videos, so I avoided posting them. Other people can do that, but I decided that it's not for me. Blue Skies, Aviv In my opinion, this is EXACTLY the right attitude to express on this issue if crash video is to be displayed in a public venue, ESPECIALLY a pilot's venue. What was lacking in this instance was any reference to the safety issue, which leaves only the prurient interest in attracting viewers. You put something like this in front of a pilot who has felt the consequences of these videos first hand without comment and you can easily have some issues arise, as they did here. There is absolutely no negative issue with using photography as a safety tool, and using photography as an educational tool in the flight safety context is a long accepted practice that I personally endorse. The problem occurs when photographers fail to realize, as you have so correctly stated, that these photographs and videos all involve people, families, friends, and indeed, human suffering. To simply throw them out there for the sole purpose of entertainment, or enhancing the photographer's image within the peer group as having bragging rights to the pictures is simply unacceptable, especially to those of us who are involved in the flight safety business. Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z's please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) | Rich Stowell | Aerobatics | 28 | January 2nd 09 02:26 PM |
Videos of aviation mishaps, accidents and crashes on-line | Rich | Home Built | 0 | September 7th 04 03:28 AM |
Associate Publisher Wanted - Aviation & Business Journals | Mergatroide | Aviation Marketplace | 1 | January 13th 04 08:26 PM |
New Aviation Videos and a Rogue's Gallery Update! | Jay Honeck | Home Built | 3 | December 28th 03 04:49 AM |
CAD outline of Rans S6S instrument panel? | Rob Turk | Home Built | 2 | October 21st 03 09:27 PM |