Inflight Emergency -- Definition

Thought I'd break this subject out of the Landout Laws thread. I have
no opinions to share on this topic, but would like to read yours as
regards off airport landings during cross country flight. However, I
suggest review the FARs and AIM for the FAA's definition of
emergencies, pilot responsibilities, and emergency operations. Most of
this is available online. Search Google for "Airman's Information
Manual Emergency Operations."

I'll look forward to your informed comments.

This has the potential to be a very short thread! ;-)

"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Thought I'd break this subject out of the Landout Laws thread. I have
no opinions to share on this topic, but would like to read yours as
regards off airport landings during cross country flight. However, I
suggest review the FARs and AIM for the FAA's definition of
emergencies, pilot responsibilities, and emergency operations. Most of
this is available online. Search Google for "Airman's Information
Manual Emergency Operations."

I'll look forward to your informed comments.

This has the potential to be a very short thread! ;-)

Might want to get a copy of the AIM and do a little reading. Here is an
excerpt from Chapter 6:

a. An emergency can be either a distress or urgency condition as defined
in the Pilot/Controller Glossary. Pilots do not hesitate to declare an
emergency when they are faced with distress conditions such as fire,
mechanical failure, or structural damage. However, some are reluctant to
report an urgency condition when they encounter situations which may not be
immediately perilous, but are potentially catastrophic. An aircraft is in at
least an urgency condition the moment the pilot becomes doubtful about
position, fuel endurance, weather, or any other condition that could
adversely affect flight safety. This is the time to ask for help, not after
the situation has developed into a distress condition.

b. Pilots who become apprehensive for their safety for any reason should
request assistance immediately. Ready and willing help is available in the
form of radio, radar, direction finding stations and other aircraft. Delay
has caused accidents and cost lives. Safety is not a luxury! Take action!

Ivan

The section implies a requirement (tacit, at least) to communicate a
distress or urgency, since both these situations indicate an uncertain
outcome. I've never heard a broadcast of mayday or pan, pan, pan prior
to an out landing (though I don't listen to 121.5). Do sailplane
pilots typcially declare an emergency before an outlanding? So many
pilots indicated in the farmer relations thread that an outlanding is
an emergency, I'm confused as to whether we should be declaring them.
I can't recall an outlanding (I've had roughly 75) where I didn't have
time to broadcast a pan, pan, pan. Of course, I never have. From time
to time I call other pilots to inform them of an outlanding (mine or
someone else's). But this has alway been a matter of convenience.

I'm looking for some validation here from those convinced that an
outlanding is an emergency. Do you truly treat it as an emergency in
as much as the AIM and FARs detail emergency operations? Or is this an
emergency of convenience, living in the gray of the regs so long as it
suits the pilot's need to retrieve his glider?

Here's a thought - how do you think the FAA would view a pilot who routinely
puts himself into a position in which he must delcare an emergency? A
landout is not an emergency, in my view it is just a landing at a location
other than an established airport.

Ivan


"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
The section implies a requirement (tacit, at least) to communicate a
distress or urgency, since both these situations indicate an uncertain
outcome. I've never heard a broadcast of mayday or pan, pan, pan prior
to an out landing (though I don't listen to 121.5). Do sailplane
pilots typcially declare an emergency before an outlanding? So many
pilots indicated in the farmer relations thread that an outlanding is
an emergency, I'm confused as to whether we should be declaring them.
I can't recall an outlanding (I've had roughly 75) where I didn't have
time to broadcast a pan, pan, pan. Of course, I never have. From time
to time I call other pilots to inform them of an outlanding (mine or
someone else's). But this has alway been a matter of convenience.

I'm looking for some validation here from those convinced that an
outlanding is an emergency. Do you truly treat it as an emergency in
as much as the AIM and FARs detail emergency operations? Or is this an
emergency of convenience, living in the gray of the regs so long as it
suits the pilot's need to retrieve his glider?

Airman's info manual didn't have much to offer.
FARs have:
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general
a.. Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes;
b.. (a) ·Anywhere. ·An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an
emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the
surface.
§91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.

(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is
the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in
command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to
meet that emergency.

Those are the only things that seem remotely on point (in a quick check
during lunch). Neither suggests any different treatment of ships w/onboard
power vs. ships using external power (sailplanes).

I wasn't able to find any info on what the landowners legal responsibilities
are in the case of an emergency landing that is not also an accident
investigation site.

"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Thought I'd break this subject out of the Landout Laws thread. I have
no opinions to share on this topic, but would like to read yours as
regards off airport landings during cross country flight. However, I
suggest review the FARs and AIM for the FAA's definition of
emergencies, pilot responsibilities, and emergency operations. Most of
this is available online. Search Google for "Airman's Information
Manual Emergency Operations."

I'll look forward to your informed comments.

This has the potential to be a very short thread! ;-)

At 16:48 01 March 2004, Todd Pattist wrote:
'Bert Willing'
wrote:

Under German law, this legal right is straightforward:

But it is not so straightforward in the U.S. A pilot
does
not have the right to use and potentially damage the
farmer's property unless he can claim necessity in
order to
avoid potentially more significant loss of life or
injury to
person or property. That risk to life and property
is the
basis for the right in the U.S. to make an outlanding.
Todd Pattist - 'WH' Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)


This argument (thread) desperately needs the expertise
of both an attorney to sort out the differences among
FAA regulations, property law, and the difference
between criminal and civil law, and also of a grammarian
to sort out the syntax and bad punctuation, which distorts
the ideas of the respondents.

I'm neither, but I do see the failed communication
on both sides.

On 3/1/04 2:24 PM, in article ,
"Nyal Williams" wrote:

This argument (thread) desperately needs the expertise
of...and...a grammarian to sort out the syntax and bad
punctuation, which distorts the ideas of the respondents.

The parts you quoted indicate none of those failings, and in fact there was
little contentiousness of any kind in them.

Add "reading for meaning" to your list of our shortcomings.



Jack
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 3/1/04 2:40 PM, in article , "Jack"
wrote:

On 3/1/04 2:24 PM, in article ,
"Nyal Williams" wrote:

This argument (thread) desperately needs the expertise
of...and...a grammarian to sort out the syntax and bad
punctuation, which distorts the ideas of the respondents.

Add "reading for meaning" to your list of our shortcomings.

Add also my inability to edit with clarity. Sorry.



Jack
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 20:42 01 March 2004, Todd Pattist wrote:
Nyal Williams
wrote:

I'm neither, but I do see the failed communication
on both sides.

What do you think is not being communicated? I think
I
understand him, and as far as I can tell, he understood
me.
I didn't even think we disagreed.

Todd Pattist - 'WH' Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

This thread is 20 items long; I did not intend to quote
any particular post, but answers back and forth seemed
to me to misinterpret the critical point of the previous
poster. My previous post was not prompted by the post
to which it was attached; it was the whole shmear.