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barrel roll in 172



 
 
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  #131  
Old August 2nd 06, 08:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 578
Default barrel roll in 172

Jim Macklin schrieb:
You have to have "macros" to take porn? "Any acrobatic
maneuver" wasn't intended to mean 720 degree roll per second
rate or tail slides, or but just the basic 3 axis and
combinations.


To me, "any" means "any". If you mean "some", then write "some". (Just
as stupid as top posting.)

BTW, even your "basic" is wrong. Some airplanes cannot be rolled because
they have too little aileron authority while inverted. (Which means that
you can roll them to inverted, but not roll them back to upright again.)

It seems you are talking about things of which you don't have the
slightest idea.

Stefan
Ads
  #132  
Old August 2nd 06, 08:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default barrel roll in 172

Top posting comments ignored, as far as control authority, I
sure am glad to know that recovery from an inverted position
after en counter with wake turbulence is impossible or that
some combined use of the ailerons, rudder and engine torque
and P-factor can't be used to complete some maneuver, even
if not of competition quality.

From now on and hence forth, consider that ALL STATEMENTS
ARE INTENDED AS "GENERALIZATIONS" and the use of words such
as "is, "always" "never" "all, "some" are not intended ort
meant to restrict or prevent, or imply that the answer is
legally binding, universal or written, vetted, edited, or
even proofread. Also, just like a legislature, each word,
sentence or paragraph stands on its own and a finding that
some parts is unconstitutional, invalid or just plain wrong
does not effect the balance of the answer, question or joke.
If you don't like the top posting you are...
free to ignore or even block the post.
or you may cut and paste it to put it at the bottom. Since
forwarding proof marks are added, you could even write a
macro (a short computer program or routine) to do the edit
for you.

Since I do not write with a pointed stick in a clay tablet,
or use a turkey feather and my pen knife to create my
writing tools, I am not a scribe, scriber or even a scholar.
But hey, since I don't have any care, feel free to be
critical.



"Stefan" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin schrieb:
| You have to have "macros" to take porn? "Any acrobatic
| maneuver" wasn't intended to mean 720 degree roll per
second
| rate or tail slides, or but just the basic 3 axis and
| combinations.
|
| To me, "any" means "any". If you mean "some", then write
"some". (Just
| as stupid as top posting.)
|
| BTW, even your "basic" is wrong. Some airplanes cannot be
rolled because
| they have too little aileron authority while inverted.
(Which means that
| you can roll them to inverted, but not roll them back to
upright again.)
|
| It seems you are talking about things of which you don't
have the
| slightest idea.
|
| Stefan


  #133  
Old August 2nd 06, 11:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,632
Default barrel roll in 172

You have to have "macros" to take porn?

Depends.

"Any acrobatic
maneuver" wasn't intended to mean 720 degree roll per second
rate or tail slides, or but just the basic 3 axis and
combinations.


"Any" means any. Some planes can't even stall.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #134  
Old August 3rd 06, 01:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
DaveB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default barrel roll in 172

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:11:14 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

People were beginning to talk about all the different
maneuver that can be done in an airplane [in this case the
172, but this applies to all airplanes]. The OP asked about
"normal category" but even allowing for utility category,
the 172 is approved for very limited aerobatics. The
specific allowed maneuvers are listed.

Certainly, any airplane can perform any aerobatic maneuver,
since all the controls are present for all axis.

But just as any camera can take portraits or porn, any
airplane will only do what the pilot can do. If your name
is Bob Hoover et al, you don't need to ask the question and
you probably can do these maneuvers. But Joe Sixpack is
going to do several things...(a) bend the airplane (b) break
the airplane (c) wish he had a quick jettison door (d) wish
he had a parachute and (e) die.


Simple rule, The Law of Gravity has no exceptions or
appeals.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
.121...
| Jim Macklin wrote
|
| (5) Model 172L (1972 model)
| "This airplane must be operated in compliance with the
| operating limitations as stated in the form of placards,
| markings, and manuals:
|
| Yeah Jim, and we all MUST comply with all highway speed
limits,
| even when they were 55 mph. Hell...my speedometer even
had a
| big red mark at 55 mph.
|
| A lot of those placards, markings, and manual limits are
just
| because the manufacturer did not want to spend the time
and
| money in order to seek certification for a particular
item.
|
| Such is the case of the "no slips with flaps" contained in
the
| manual for a lot of the C-172s.
|
| Bob Moore


I will be flying a 172 in the morning, I will roll it and report the
results.

Best
Daveb
  #135  
Old August 3rd 06, 04:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Klein
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default barrel roll in 172

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:26:48 +0200, Stefan
wrote:

Jim Macklin schrieb:
You have to have "macros" to take porn? "Any acrobatic
maneuver" wasn't intended to mean 720 degree roll per second
rate or tail slides, or but just the basic 3 axis and
combinations.


To me, "any" means "any". If you mean "some", then write "some". (Just
as stupid as top posting.)

BTW, even your "basic" is wrong. Some airplanes cannot be rolled because
they have too little aileron authority while inverted. (Which means that
you can roll them to inverted, but not roll them back to upright again.)


I've always wondered what would happen if you got upside down due to a
strong vortex in a Mitsubishi MU-2. These airplanes do not have
ailerons for roll control but instead have spoilers. But if you don't
have spoilers on both sides of the wing (do they or not??) then how
would they operate inverted? There used to be a MU-2 owner that
posted here occassionally. Is he still around?

Klein
  #136  
Old August 3rd 06, 05:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default barrel roll in 172

All airplanes can stall, even the stall proof airplanes.
maybe the cargo shifts, maybe something happens, maybe the
A&P mis-rigs the elevator or the stop breaks. Trust me, all
airplanes can stall.



"Jose" wrote in message
t...
| You have to have "macros" to take porn?
|
| Depends.
|
| "Any acrobatic
| maneuver" wasn't intended to mean 720 degree roll per
second
| rate or tail slides, or but just the basic 3 axis and
| combinations.
|
| "Any" means any. Some planes can't even stall.
|
| Jose
| --
| The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the
music.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.


  #137  
Old August 3rd 06, 05:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,632
Default barrel roll in 172

All airplanes can stall, even the stall proof airplanes.
maybe the cargo shifts, maybe something happens, maybe the
A&P mis-rigs the elevator or the stop breaks.


I like the "maybe something happens" method of stalling a plane. I was
(of course) referring to airplanes that have not broken, and are being
flown deliberately into a maneuver. Not all airplanes are capable of
all maneuvers.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #138  
Old August 3rd 06, 02:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Carter[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 403
Default barrel roll in 172

"Not all airplanes are capable of completing all maneuvers."

Regards,

James A. (Jim) Carter

-----Original Message-----
From: Jose ]
Posted At: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 23:37
Posted To: rec.aviation.piloting
Conversation: barrel roll in 172
Subject: barrel roll in 172

All airplanes can stall, even the stall proof airplanes.
maybe the cargo shifts, maybe something happens, maybe the
A&P mis-rigs the elevator or the stop breaks.


I like the "maybe something happens" method of stalling a plane. I

was
(of course) referring to airplanes that have not broken, and are being
flown deliberately into a maneuver. Not all airplanes are capable of
all maneuvers.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.


  #139  
Old August 3rd 06, 02:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default barrel roll in 172

Investigators find cause of fatal Utah plane crash
BY MOLLY MCMILLIN
The Wichita Eagle
The National Transportation Safety Board indicated in a
preliminary report Tuesday that the linkage on an
experimental twin-engine plane that killed two test pilots,
including Wichita State University graduate Nathan Forrest,
was installed incorrectly.

The Spectrum 33 crashed July 25 during takeoff from Spanish
Fork-Springville Airport at Spanish Fork, Utah. The NTSB
report said the plane's linkage -- which helps control the
plane -- was installed backward.

"It was connected in a manner that reversed the roll
control," the report said.

Witnesses indicated the airplane entered a right roll almost
immediately after takeoff and the right wingtip hit the
ground. The airplane -- which was made from advanced
composite materials -- was destroyed by the impact, but all
major components were accounted for in the wreckage, the
NTSB said.

Spectrum president Austin Blue told Aviation International
News that the company will continue with the program. First
flight of the next test plane, which will be designed to
ensure that the controls cannot be rigged incorrectly, will
occur sometime next year, Aviation International said.

Forrest, 25, was a former Olathe resident who graduated from
WSU in 2003. Also killed in the crash was 53-year old Glenn
Maben, Spectrum's director of flight operations.





Remember, always, control wheel left and say, as you look,
right one is down and the left one is up, pull backwards and
note not just that the stick moves, but that the elevator us
up. Then stick right, left one is down and the right one is
up then stick full forward and again verify the elevator
moved in the correct direction. If the pilot can't see the
control surfaces, have somebody on the outside to verify the
correct movement. Always do this, particularly after any
maintenance. It is not rare.



Some check lists say FREE and CORRECT.








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jose" wrote in message
. ..
| All airplanes can stall, even the stall proof airplanes.
| maybe the cargo shifts, maybe something happens, maybe
the
| A&P mis-rigs the elevator or the stop breaks.
|
| I like the "maybe something happens" method of stalling a
plane. I was
| (of course) referring to airplanes that have not broken,
and are being
| flown deliberately into a maneuver. Not all airplanes are
capable of
| all maneuvers.
|
| Jose
| --
| The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the
music.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.


  #140  
Old August 3rd 06, 03:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,632
Default PED barrel roll in 172

"Not all airplanes are capable of completing all maneuvers."

If it hasn't completed a maneuver, it hasn't done it.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
 




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