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Cross-Country Definition (USA)



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 6th 04, 05:05 PM
Michael Stringfellow
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As I expected, Judy hit the nail on the head. For FAA purposes, to log XC
time, a landout at a remote airfield is required.

The accepted definition in the soaring community is any flight out of
gliding range of the home field. I certainly know when I'm cross-country
when all I can see is rocks and cactus. Under this definition, I have about
600 hours, but under the FAAs I can only count my handful of landouts and
one where I flew from another site back home.

I still wonder whether bodies like the BGA or FAI have a written definition.

Mike

ASW 20 WA


  #12  
Old February 6th 04, 09:17 PM
Mark James Boyd
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In article ,
Judy Ruprecht wrote:
At 02:30 06 February 2004, Btiz referenced:
FAR 61.1(b)(3)(ii)(B), for the purpose of meeting aeronautical
experience
requirements...


Uhm... the cited FAR paragraph actually refers to a
cross country definition in the context of 'experience
requirements' established for private, commercial or
instrument pilot certification in aircraft other than
rotorcraft... and there are no cross country requirements
established for any level of glider pilot certification.

The Part 61 FAQ is mute on this topic, but I believe
61.1(b)(3)(i) is the applicable paragraph and it defines
'Cross country time' as 'time acquired during a flight...

- conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate
- conducted in an aircraft
- that includes a landing at a point other than the
airport of departure; and
- that involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage,
electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation
systems to navigate to the landing point.'

Thus, FAR-wise, a land-out a few miles away from home
may involve 'cross country time' in a glider but a
successful closed course glider flight of several hundred
miles does not appear to be cross country flight time
at all!

Your insurance company probably has other ideas...

Judy



It's interesting, however, that the (iv) section requirements for
ATP do not require a landing. I don't see why glider
flights over 50nm with no distant landing can't be used
towards the ATP. In my experience the ATP examiners
don't seem to care if the X-C time was in a MEL, SEL or helicopter,
so I don't see why they'd poo-poo glider X-C...
  #13  
Old February 6th 04, 09:18 PM
Mark James Boyd
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In article 2YOUb.16245$EW.6421@okepread02,
Michael Stringfellow wrote:
As I expected, Judy hit the nail on the head. For FAA purposes, to log XC
time, a landout at a remote airfield is required.

The accepted definition in the soaring community is any flight out of
gliding range of the home field. I certainly know when I'm cross-country
when all I can see is rocks and cactus. Under this definition, I have about
600 hours, but under the FAAs I can only count my handful of landouts and
one where I flew from another site back home.

I still wonder whether bodies like the BGA or FAI have a written definition.

Mike

ASW 20 WA



Michael,

If they ever make a glider ATP rating, man, YOU'RE THERE!!!

  #14  
Old February 7th 04, 12:12 AM
Andy Durbin
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Judy Ruprecht wrote in message news:bvv7p1


but a
successful closed course glider flight of several hundred
miles does not appear to be cross country flight time
at all!



It counts as qualifying cross country time for the ATP rating. ATP
cross country time does not require a landing at the remote point.

(iv) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience
requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a
rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight --

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical
miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic
navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

I asked AFS 600 what was meant by appropriate aircraft, and what were
inappropriate aircraft. I was told they had no idea what para (A)
meant since there were no inappropriate aircraft and yes, gliders
qualified.

BTW I was able use 25 hours of glider cross country (flights where I
landed more than 50nm from origin) toward the experience required for
airplane commercial. Those landout flight finally got some credit and
saved me 25 expensive hours in airplanes.


Andy
  #15  
Old February 7th 04, 01:04 AM
soarski
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"Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message news:2YOUb.16245$EW.6421@okepread02...
As I expected, Judy hit the nail on the head. For FAA purposes, to log XC
time, a landout at a remote airfield is required.

The accepted definition in the soaring community is any flight out of
gliding range of the home field. I certainly know when I'm cross-country
when all I can see is rocks and cactus. Under this definition, I have about
600 hours, but under the FAAs I can only count my handful of landouts and
one where I flew from another site back home.

I still wonder whether bodies like the BGA or FAI have a written definition.

Mike

ASW 20 WA


It's academical! Like we told you, no X-Country flights required for
the US Glider license. They do not care yet, even though you could
take a Stemme with a glider license for 600 mi nonstop. You can write
your miles into that form, who cares, but you could also write "NA". I
assumed you were upgrading to an airplane license, "powered" They
probably use the same form? Getting into power, they know what they
want. AND not a landout but landing at a tower controled airport
preferably.

On the other hand, the BGA and FAI know exactly what they want, and
you can prove it with your logger.

DB
  #16  
Old February 7th 04, 02:27 AM
BTIZ
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BTW I was able use 25 hours of glider cross country (flights where I
landed more than 50nm from origin) toward the experience required for
airplane commercial. Those landout flight finally got some credit and
saved me 25 expensive hours in airplanes.


Andy


very good Andy... landing out does have it's advantages.. as long as it's
more than 50nm away..

For the rest of you.. Commmerical airplane rating requires 50hours of Cross
country.. of which only 10 hours has to be in an airplane.

BT


  #17  
Old February 9th 04, 06:01 PM
Michael Stringfellow
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I disagree that it's purely academic. Firstly, a student glider pilot may
not fly cross county or more than 25 miles from the home field without an
endorsement from the instructor. You therefore need to know what
cross-country flight is if you are not going to do it!

Second, there is a specific space on the FAA 8710 application form for you
to fill in "glider cross-country hours". I assume that if the FAA is asking
for the information, they have some use for it, even if none is required for
a glider license.

Third, many of the cross-country requirements for other certificates or
ratings specify that they should be done in an aircraft - not airplane.
Last time I looked, gliders were still defined as aircraft and cross-country
time logged in gliders in accordance with the appropriate FAR can be used.
Since gliders are cheaper to operate than airplanes, you can save some money
when getting another rating.

Some other contributors to this thread have made the point very well.

Mike

ASW 20 WA



"soarski" wrote in message
om...
"Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message

news:2YOUb.16245$EW.6421@okepread02...
As I expected, Judy hit the nail on the head. For FAA purposes, to log

XC
time, a landout at a remote airfield is required.

The accepted definition in the soaring community is any flight out of
gliding range of the home field. I certainly know when I'm

cross-country
when all I can see is rocks and cactus. Under this definition, I have

about
600 hours, but under the FAAs I can only count my handful of landouts

and
one where I flew from another site back home.

I still wonder whether bodies like the BGA or FAI have a written

definition.

Mike

ASW 20 WA


It's academical! Like we told you, no X-Country flights required for
the US Glider license. They do not care yet, even though you could
take a Stemme with a glider license for 600 mi nonstop. You can write
your miles into that form, who cares, but you could also write "NA". I
assumed you were upgrading to an airplane license, "powered" They
probably use the same form? Getting into power, they know what they
want. AND not a landout but landing at a tower controled airport
preferably.

On the other hand, the BGA and FAI know exactly what they want, and
you can prove it with your logger.

DB



 




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