Virga, rain, cloudsuck - how close do you get?

On Tuesday, 1 September 2020 at 12:19:22 UTC-6, ProfJ wrote:
Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I guess I was wrong calling this virga (I called it that because it was rain which did not appear to be reaching the ground), it was more likely just regular rain in an updraft, which may have been a convergence updraft as suggested in the replies. BTW I was interested how many responses related experiences in the Southwest USA (NM, CO, UT), I was flying on the West Slope in Colorado at the time so maybe it's a function of the crazy skies we have here. The consensus seems to be: proceed with caution, unless there is lightning, in which case avoid like the plague (a phrase which has admittedly lost a lot of its meaning lately)..

On 9/8/2020 3:29 PM, ProfJ wrote:
snip...

The consensus seems to be: proceed with caution, unless there is lightning...

That was kinda my general thinking even *before* Ken Sorenson's (I think it
was) Moriarty misadventure with lightning.

In electrical-charge terms, my closest (known, hyuk hyuk) encounter came while
returning to Boulder from the ENE, through light virga between I-25 east of
Longmont, and Longmont (some 8-ish miles west). Began to hear some
previously-never-heard "clicking type noises" while running along through some
light rain keeping a wary eye on airmass motion "just-in-case." Puzzling, it
was, until something INside my brain clicked...about the time my forearm hairs
began to stand up. Static electricity charge build-up on the canopy? Slowing
from 65 knots to min-sink resulted in arm hairs laying back down and clicking
noises halting. Hmmm...

Perhaps tempting fate (or a form of curiosity maybe *actually* killing that
cat!), increasing speed again, brought the return of "clicking" and vertical
arm hairs...which well and truly satisfied my curiosity, just then & there!
Thenceforth, I was content to fly slowly enough to avoid the apparent charge
build-up on the canopy associated with both the "clicking" and vertical
forearm hairs, despite the increased time-exposure to the rainfall. Happily,
getting back home proved to not be an issue...

Then there was the early morning when - from an utterly cloudless sky, while
doing something now long-forgotten in the "puttering vein" - a single bolt of
lightning flashed/struck nearby...as-in well under a mile distant (I
habitually count seconds until the associated-toonder's heard). If it hadn't
startled/scared me so much, I mighta disbelieved what I'd heard...had I not
actually seen the bolt from the corner of my eye. *Almost* unbelievable!

Bob W.

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Sounds like you encountered St. Elmo's Fire, which is quite common when flying through dry precipitation like snow or ice crystals. If it had been dark, you would have seen the sparks to go along with the clicking sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7huPWGX-yz0

Mike

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 5:36:24 AM UTC+1, Mike Reid wrote:
Sounds like you encountered St. Elmo's Fire, which is quite common when flying through dry precipitation like snow or ice crystals. If it had been dark, you would have seen the sparks to go along with the clicking sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7huPWGX-yz0

Mike
Yes indeed, flying a glider (or any other aircraft for that matter) under a charged rain cloud can result in an electrical discharge. Often known as point discharge, it might be heard as clicks (from sparks) or as a buzzing on your radio. More intense discharges produce the glow of St. Elmo's fire.. In my Discus 2, it would make the hairs on my leg near the release cable stand on end! While not dangerous (except perhaps to sensitive avionics), I always saw it as a hint to go fly somewhere else.

Most lightning discharges to aircraft are fairly minor ones triggered by the plane itself flying through cloud or rain. It's rare for an aircraft in flight to connect with a more energetic ground flash, although that is exactly what happened to the famous English glider incident mentioned in an earlier post. That glider ended up forming part of the path for a rather energetic positive ground flash and expanding air or water vapor from the discharge inside the wings blew them apart rather dramatically. If you avoid flying in cloud or the rain directly under a thundercloud, the chances of a lightning strike are small.

Mike

At 11:09 09 September 2020, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 5:36:24 AM UTC+1, Mike Reid
wrote:
If you avoid flying in cloud or the rain directly under a thundercloud,
the chances of a lightning strike are small.

Mike

If you talk to Ken Sorenson, I think he might disagree. You can
dig up his report about getting hit at a USA Standard Class Nationals
in Moriarty a number of years ago. IIRC, he was well underneath
and in front of a cloud (in the clear) that didn't even have rain yet.

RO

Mike the Strike wrote on 9/9/2020 4:09 AM:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 5:36:24 AM UTC+1, Mike Reid wrote:
Sounds like you encountered St. Elmo's Fire, which is quite common when flying through dry precipitation like snow or ice crystals. If it had been dark, you would have seen the sparks to go along with the clicking sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7huPWGX-yz0

Mike
Yes indeed, flying a glider (or any other aircraft for that matter) under a charged rain cloud can result in an electrical discharge. Often known as point discharge, it might be heard as clicks (from sparks) or as a buzzing on your radio. More intense discharges produce the glow of St. Elmo's fire.. In my Discus 2, it would make the hairs on my leg near the release cable stand on end! While not dangerous (except perhaps to sensitive avionics), I always saw it as a hint to go fly somewhere else.

Most lightning discharges to aircraft are fairly minor ones triggered by the plane itself flying through cloud or rain. It's rare for an aircraft in flight to connect with a more energetic ground flash, although that is exactly what happened to the famous English glider incident mentioned in an earlier post. That glider ended up forming part of the path for a rather energetic positive ground flash and expanding air or water vapor from the discharge inside the wings blew them apart rather dramatically. If you avoid flying in cloud or the rain directly under a thundercloud, the chances of a lightning strike are small.

Mike

Does "the Strike" refer to baseball, labor unrest, or perhaps - lightning?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Does "the Strike" refer to baseball, labor unrest, or perhaps - lightning?

Yes, Lightning. Mike is a PhD physicist who spent most of his career studying and consulting on lightning matters. He's often hired to provide expert witness on interesting litigation related to lightning damage and injuries.

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 10:36:24 PM UTC-6, Mike Reid wrote:
Sounds like you encountered St. Elmo's Fire, which is quite common when flying through dry precipitation like snow or ice crystals. If it had been dark, you would have seen the sparks to go along with the clicking sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7huPWGX-yz0

Mike

Mark Keene recently posted a great video of this on his Facebook page.

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:39:47 PM UTC-6, BobW wrote:
On 9/8/2020 3:29 PM, ProfJ wrote:
snip...

The consensus seems to be: proceed with caution, unless there is lightning...

That was kinda my general thinking even *before* Ken Sorenson's (I think it
was) Moriarty misadventure with lightning.

In electrical-charge terms, my closest (known, hyuk hyuk) encounter came while
returning to Boulder from the ENE, through light virga between I-25 east of
Longmont, and Longmont (some 8-ish miles west). Began to hear some
previously-never-heard "clicking type noises" while running along through some
light rain keeping a wary eye on airmass motion "just-in-case." Puzzling, it
was, until something INside my brain clicked...about the time my forearm hairs
began to stand up. Static electricity charge build-up on the canopy? Slowing
from 65 knots to min-sink resulted in arm hairs laying back down and clicking
noises halting. Hmmm...

Perhaps tempting fate (or a form of curiosity maybe *actually* killing that
cat!), increasing speed again, brought the return of "clicking" and vertical
arm hairs...which well and truly satisfied my curiosity, just then & there!
Thenceforth, I was content to fly slowly enough to avoid the apparent charge
build-up on the canopy associated with both the "clicking" and vertical
forearm hairs, despite the increased time-exposure to the rainfall. Happily,
getting back home proved to not be an issue...

Then there was the early morning when - from an utterly cloudless sky, while
doing something now long-forgotten in the "puttering vein" - a single bolt of
lightning flashed/struck nearby...as-in well under a mile distant (I
habitually count seconds until the associated-toonder's heard). If it hadn't
startled/scared me so much, I mighta disbelieved what I'd heard...had I not
actually seen the bolt from the corner of my eye. *Almost* unbelievable!

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Several years ago, Bob and his bride were flying our old 2-33 downwind at Owl Canyon about 1000ft agl when a lightning bolt descended from above and forked into two bolts, one fore and one aft of the 2-33, that continued to the ground. Among my more memorable of soaring sights. Bob, his bride, and the 2-33 are all still in service.

Frank Whiteley