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A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots, competitors,and world champions (USA).



 
 
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  #41  
Old August 13th 14, 02:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors, and world champions (USA).

While it is no way takes away from the suggested solutions to the problem, it is worth noting that the problem of decreasing membership is a worldwide issue and not unique to the US. Take a look at John Roake's summary of worldwide membership statistics. You will see that the decline is everywhere including in those European countries we often seek to emulate. Note also that the production of world champions (something the original post highlights as a concern) does not in any way correlate to membership stats. Poland, for example, has had one of the steepest declines in membership over the last decade yet in that time has risen to be the the top in contests.

http://www.lkka.cz/sport/zapisy/Zapi...03.30_2.P2.pdf

So, the question is not what is being done wrong in the US (or my country, Canada) in particular, but rather what can change within the worldwide soaring community? We can look to best practices from abroad yes, but there may very well be things we do that those abroad may want to consider as well.

We also have to consider what the end goal is. Soaring is both a sport and an activity. Success can be measured by bums in seats or by seats on podiums. and as the Poles have shown us, the two are not necessarily one and the same.
  #42  
Old August 13th 14, 02:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SCVihlen
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors, and world champions (USA).

I learned to fly sailplanes while stationed with the USAF in Germany. I've been soaring in the US since 2000 and with my airline job have many opportunities to visit clubs around the world. My take on one of the factors is that the US is so large and clubs spread so far apart. Many times not near metropolitan areas. The club I've belonged to is an hour and forty minutes each way. The next nearest clubs are at least twice that distance and more. It's just a huge commitment to make a day at the club happen.

Now, my experience in Europe where I've flown internationally the most (Germany and England) There is a club every 30 miles. Usually, there's public transportation available from town to the club which makes it very accessible even for me on layovers. Imagine if here in the US we had this kind of access to our club field and facilities. Europe is not the US and this is the limitation we have. There are many reasons membership is dwindling, but I wanted to put this part of the equation out there.

Steve Vihlen
  #43  
Old August 13th 14, 02:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Fox Two[_2_]
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors, and world champions (USA).

We all appear to agree on two points: First, we have a problem attracting new members to our sport.

There aren't many people in the general population who are interested in soaring, but I believe that those who are will seek us out. It is important that we are able to quickly satisfy their curiosity when they do. I think it's safe to assume that most people's first stop would be a search on the internet, and that first visit to our website needs to convince them to make further contact. When they do, we need to respond quickly, and get them to come for a visit. When they arrive, somebody should be there to make them feel welcome, and answer their questions. I would suggest that this 'greeter' be somebody other than the person giving the glider rides so that the conversation can remain fluid. This personal touch cannot be overemphasized. In addition, our facilities need to be attractive. My wish-list would include a well-groomed outdoor picnic area that is in the shade, a well-maintained comfortable club house with refreshments, and a clean toilet with a sink that is kept stocked with paper, soap and towels (very important to the ladies). But it's the glider ride that sells the membership. The glider itself should be the best glider in the fleet, but it MUST be well-maintained and clean, inside and out. And the pilot giving the ride shouldn't look like a bum.

The second point that we appear to agree upon is that we have a problem keeping the members that we already have.

We can retain many members by just making improvements to club policies, such as:

1. While many members can only come out to the club on weekends and holidays, there's no reason why the club itself should be open only on weekends and holidays.

2. Double the size of each flying day by training in the mornings; pattern tows don't require thermals.

3. Standardize initial training. There is more than one way to satisfactorily demonstrate a maneuver to the PTS, but students are easily frustrated by different instructors teaching different procedures.

4. People hate duty rosters. If your club has a difficult time staffing a position, offer the carrot and not the stick.

5. Don't discourage cross-country by putting a daily time limit on club gliders. If you only have a few gliders for several people to share, set one glider aside for some to share, but let the others fly their gliders all day.

6. Encourage cross-country by correlating badges to privileges. For example: flight privileges beyond immediate local would require a C badge, flights beyond extended local require a Bronze badge, access to the club's entry-level fiberglass glider would require a Silver badge, etc.

7. Instructors should introduce cross-country BEFORE they sign them off for their check ride. The SGS 2-33 and ASK 13 can easily fly Silver distance tasks.

Other necessary club improvements would require deeper commitments, such as:

1. The basic training gliders, like the SGS 2-33 and the ASK 13, fill an important role in our sport. But they live hard lives, and all too often they're in poor condition. This is unsafe and unacceptable. Gliders need to be maintained (not just inspected), and eventually they need to be torn apart, refurbished and rebuilt.

2. Club fleets must grow. We need classic ships for the beginners, fiberglass ships for the intermediate members, and high-performance ships for the advanced members. And we need a safe and reliable way to get them all in the air, quickly.

3. But high-performance gliders by themselves are useless without receiving the necessary training to extract their performance capabilities; instruction must continue beyond the initial check ride in high-performance bi-place gliders, far away from home.

4. And club facilities must grow. We need hangars, internet-equipped club houses, covered areas near the runway for members waiting to fly, golf carts, picnic areas for end-of-day beverage consumption and holiday barbeques, campgrounds for tents and RV's, playgrounds for the kids...

In short, we desperately need to improve our product. Many clubs focus on making the sport affordable, but by doing so they won't ever have enough money to make improvements like these. But even if we doubled our fees we wouldn't raise enough revenue to make the improvements our sport needs; we would only lose more members.

While money by itself won't fix anything, we won't be able to fix everything without money. For clubs in the USA, the best tool available to grow funds is the 501(c)(3) certification. The government created this program specifically to help organizations like ours grow, but too few are even aware of it. The core of my proposal is that the SSA has an opportunity (and I would even say a responsibility) to get the word out to every club about the benefits of 501(c)(3). The specifics of to what degree the SSA becomes involved with each club's process is open for debate.


Chris Fleming
  #44  
Old August 13th 14, 03:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors,and world champions (USA).

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 6:28:06 AM UTC-6, kirk.stant wrote:

Bill, with respect, you can't change physics. Our club has a fantastic grass field - but is only 2400' long, with roads and an interstate at each end. So you tell us how a winch will work - because we would love to have one!


And yes I have winch launched - in Germany, France, and the US. And what all those operations had in common was a LONG runway (over 4000').


So we will stick to our trusty Pawnee and Super Cub for now.



Kirk

66


Yes, winch operations work better with longer runways and 2500 feet is too short. Some might say 2500 feet is too short for safe aero tow operations particularly with heavy gliders. Don't limit your thinking to the existing airfield. Imagine how to get a larger one. Think outside the box. People ARE doing that.

On average, that "trusty Pawnee" will deliver about 30,000 tows before it gets totaled in a crash according to 20 years of NTSB data and activity surveys. There's only about 100 left and we're crashing 4 - 5 a year. Those surveys also say it's likely to kill a tow pilot every 125,000 tows. Only one in of five of those wrecks will get rebuilt to tow again. We're running out of 50 year old Pawnees.

Most clubs see their tow planes sucking up around 65% of their revenue leaving little money to upgrade their glider fleets. Sure, they could raise fees but that will cost them members. When the tug costs reach 75% of revenue, clubs tend to start a downward spiral as gliders get older and members leave.

Winch launch is inevitable.
  #45  
Old August 13th 14, 03:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors,and world champions (USA).

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:28:06 AM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:08:01 PM UTC-5, Bill D wrote:



Evan, with respect, we don't need "Negative Experts" to tell us why it won't work. We need people with the imagination to see how to make it work..




Bill, with respect, you can't change physics. Our club has a fantastic grass field - but is only 2400' long, with roads and an interstate at each end. So you tell us how a winch will work - because we would love to have one!



And yes I have winch launched - in Germany, France, and the US. And what all those operations had in common was a LONG runway (over 4000').



So we will stick to our trusty Pawnee and Super Cub for now.



Kirk

66


While there is much hand wringing about tows vs. winch launches on this thread and comparisons to Europe, it seems that a large part of the solution in Europe is self-launched gliders. I have heard figures like 70-80% of new gliders sold have engines. There are far less popular that that in the US.

But I do not believe that the cost of the launch has much to do with the decline in popularity, and therefore decreasing it will not halt the decline. The international figures referred to above show that the US is no more in decline than most of the rest of the world: USA down 19%, Germany down 18% over 11 years for example. In spite of the national soaring centers, winch launches, and a new Audi for every club member.

Since all sports are faddish in nature, there very best thing that could happen is to make a blockbuster feature length drama about soaring, demonstrating (through popular young stars) how glamorous it is. Second choice might be a poplar video game featuring soaring as the main element. Both probably need a lot of blood and gore to be popular. That is how young people are influenced these days.
  #46  
Old August 13th 14, 03:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Justin Craig[_3_]
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots, competitors, and world champions (USA).

In the UK there is considerable resource put into the juniors moment to
attract youth to the support. This is very successful, and IMHO a very
worthwhile investment.

As I see it a bigger issue is retaining members through their mid to late
20s. Typically at this stage in life their are external factors affecting
membership retention ( careers, mortgages, wife / husband, children, etc).


So should clubs invest in creating and environment / infrastructure where
the airfield is a "family friendly environment". Static caravan parks for
members, so that the family can stay for the weekend and BBQ in the evening
with friends, etc. Make each weekend like a holiday for the family and
allow yourself more time to fly?

I, and I suspect many others find that gliding is wonderful, but the
friendships and social aspect of our sport also play a considerable role in
enjoyment of the sport (particularly in the UK where the weather is crap
for 11.5 months of the year!)

Just a thought.....



At 13:21 13 August 2014, SCVihlen wrote:
I learned to fly sailplanes while stationed with the USAF in Germany.

I've
=
been soaring in the US since 2000 and with my airline job have many
opportu=
nities to visit clubs around the world. My take on one of the factors is
th=
at the US is so large and clubs spread so far apart. Many times not near
me=
tropolitan areas. The club I've belonged to is an hour and forty minutes
ea=
ch way. The next nearest clubs are at least twice that distance and more.
I=
t's just a huge commitment to make a day at the club happen.=20

Now, my experience in Europe where I've flown internationally the most
(Ger=
many and England) There is a club every 30 miles. Usually, there's public
t=
ransportation available from town to the club which makes it very
accessibl=
e even for me on layovers. Imagine if here in the US we had this kind of
ac=
cess to our club field and facilities. Europe is not the US and this is
the=
limitation we have. There are many reasons membership is dwindling, but

I
=
wanted to put this part of the equation out there.

Steve Vihlen


  #47  
Old August 13th 14, 06:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Robin Clark
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors, and world champions (USA).


What if America's national training center for soaring was mobile?

A two-place,self-launching sailplane towed by a motor home driven by the SSA's chief of training
could show up a week before a regional contest. The instructor would conduct seminars, take students aloft and encourage others to follow in their own planes. Other times, clubs could pool interested members to bring SSA training to town. It might be popular enough to require bidding with sites bringing the most paying students getting the trainer first.

The chief training officer could write a column for Soaring magazine, have winter chores in the offices at Hobbs, help put on the convention and other national events.

The project would be partially self-funding, but mostly supported through the SSA with the most subsidy aimed at the instructor community, because we want our instructors to convey excitement about cross country flying. Some sailplane manufacturer would get the benefit of a top-of-the-line product being demonstrated across the country.
Robin Clark
  #48  
Old August 13th 14, 06:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors,and world champions (USA).

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:02:00 AM UTC-5, Bill D wrote:

Yes, winch operations work better with longer runways and 2500 feet is too short. Some might say 2500 feet is too short for safe aero tow operations particularly with heavy gliders. Don't limit your thinking to the existing airfield. Imagine how to get a larger one. Think outside the box. People ARE doing that.


Disagree that our 2400' (with nice overruns) is too short for aero tows. Of course, we are at 500' msl, which helps. Hot day, no wind, full up G-103 can make it sporting for the 180 Super Cub, but our 235 Pawnee doesn't mind at all.


On average, that "trusty Pawnee" will deliver about 30,000 tows before it gets totaled in a crash according to 20 years of NTSB data and activity surveys. There's only about 100 left and we're crashing 4 - 5 a year. Those surveys also say it's likely to kill a tow pilot every 125,000 tows. Only one in of five of those wrecks will get rebuilt to tow again. We're running out of 50 year old Pawnees.


Well, ours has been going for over 30 years since a complete rebuild (from a basket case). We have parts for a couple more, and are looking at some interesting options out of Argentina - don't give up on the Pawnee yet!

Also, you can now get an essentially zero time Cessna Bird Dog. Not cheap, but probably one of the best towplanes ever made, and no fabric to worry about.

Most clubs see their tow planes sucking up around 65% of their revenue leaving little money to upgrade their glider fleets. Sure, they could raise fees but that will cost them members. When the tug costs reach 75% of revenue, clubs tend to start a downward spiral as gliders get older and members leave.


We are lucky to own our field, towplanes, and an expanding fleet (everything from a 2-33 and 1-26s, to K-21 and Astir CS for XC), all hangared (with a separate new hangar for 10 private gliders). We are seeing a lot of new members this year, including several teens - to the point that our limitation now is CFIGs!

Winch launch is inevitable.


No, death and taxes are inevitable. Winch launching is an attractive option. Now if we all had sustainers, a short winch launch followed by a sustainer climb would have potential. But this isn't Europe yet.

Kirk
66


  #49  
Old August 13th 14, 07:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors, and world champions (USA).

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:06:47 AM UTC-6, Robin Clark wrote:
What if America's national training center for soaring was mobile?



A two-place,self-launching sailplane towed by a motor home driven by the SSA's chief of training

could show up a week before a regional contest. The instructor would conduct seminars, take students aloft and encourage others to follow in their own planes. Other times, clubs could pool interested members to bring SSA training to town. It might be popular enough to require bidding with sites bringing the most paying students getting the trainer first.



The chief training officer could write a column for Soaring magazine, have winter chores in the offices at Hobbs, help put on the convention and other national events.



The project would be partially self-funding, but mostly supported through the SSA with the most subsidy aimed at the instructor community, because we want our instructors to convey excitement about cross country flying. Some sailplane manufacturer would get the benefit of a top-of-the-line product being demonstrated across the country.

Robin Clark


Last time I checked, first solo in a self-launching sailplane was not insurable. I know there was interest at one time in forming a training club around a Grob G-103 SL, but lack of insurability for first solos put that idea to bed.

Frank Whiteley
  #50  
Old August 14th 14, 03:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Robin Clark
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Default A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots,competitors, and world champions (USA).

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 2:28:02 PM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:06:47 AM UTC-6, Robin Clark wrote:

What if America's national training center for soaring was mobile?








A two-place,self-launching sailplane towed by a motor home driven by the SSA's chief of training




could show up a week before a regional contest. The instructor would conduct seminars, take students aloft and encourage others to follow in their own planes. Other times, clubs could pool interested members to bring SSA training to town. It might be popular enough to require bidding with sites bringing the most paying students getting the trainer first.








The chief training officer could write a column for Soaring magazine, have winter chores in the offices at Hobbs, help put on the convention and other national events.








The project would be partially self-funding, but mostly supported through the SSA with the most subsidy aimed at the instructor community, because we want our instructors to convey excitement about cross country flying. Some sailplane manufacturer would get the benefit of a top-of-the-line product being demonstrated across the country.




Robin Clark




Last time I checked, first solo in a self-launching sailplane was not insurable. I know there was interest at one time in forming a training club around a Grob G-103 SL, but lack of insurability for first solos put that idea to bed.



Frank Whiteley


All flights in an SSA sponsored self-launched two-place would be with the SSA's chief instructor aboard. Instruction would be for advanced cross country and racing with the idea of improving overall US performance and eventually our results internationally. There would be a minimum skill requirement to fly with the instructor. Training on the ground would be open.
 




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