If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:46:12 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote: On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:39:28 GMT, Guy Alcala wrote: Ed Rasimus wrote: snip Impossible to fly a combat weapons delivery sortie in either airplane without a second crewmember. (Note that the F-4 can be flown quite nicely solo as the Thunderbirds did, but not as a weapon system.) Ed, you couldn't make a manual delivery in the F-4E using only the front seat? (Not that I'm buying any of JGG's fantasies, just wondering). I can see no reason why you couldn't in an F-4C, and probably the same holds true for a D or E as well. All the switches you'd need are in the F/C/P. If you wanted to make a radar-assisted delivery that's another matter, and I'm sure that both accuracy and safety were improved during manual deliveries at night by having the GIB call out the 3 As during a pass, but he doesn't seem essential. Guy Of course you could get bombs off with a manually depressed reticle. But, your INS is still telling you distance back to home plate, you've had no nav updates for the length of the sortie. You've got no radar, since you can't get out of standby to even access a boresight A/A lock on. You've got no ECM operative, although you can turn your RWR on. It simply makes no sense. If you've got a mission critical enough that you've taken a system off the operational line and painted it black, why wouldn't you put a bod in the R/C/P. It isn't to minimize number of folks in the loop, because you've got a passle full of ground support troops to arm, fuel and launch the bird. Basically any control box within the pressure bulkheads can be easily moved from back to front. Probably could even move the rear radar unit up front or at least duplicate whatever controls you need.. What I can't figure out is why the CIA needed to bomb Laos with black airplanes? Maybe they were running their own Igloo White on the sly and dropping sensors instead? Maybe it wasn't just Laos they were dropping sensors on? Maybe use a black aircraft at night to drop a sensor near a runway and listen to the planes come and go? Maybe the backseats were full of equipment (F-105 Combat Martin) that picked up their sensor info and relayed it to their own out of the loop listening posts? Maybe the back seat area had a trap door and an agent dropped out over NVN?G |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:39:28 GMT, Guy Alcala wrote: Ed Rasimus wrote: snip Impossible to fly a combat weapons delivery sortie in either airplane without a second crewmember. (Note that the F-4 can be flown quite nicely solo as the Thunderbirds did, but not as a weapon system.) Ed, you couldn't make a manual delivery in the F-4E using only the front seat? (Not that I'm buying any of JGG's fantasies, just wondering). I can see no reason why you couldn't in an F-4C, and probably the same holds true for a D or E as well. All the switches you'd need are in the F/C/P. If you wanted to make a radar-assisted delivery that's another matter, and I'm sure that both accuracy and safety were improved during manual deliveries at night by having the GIB call out the 3 As during a pass, but he doesn't seem essential. Of course you could get bombs off with a manually depressed reticle. But, your INS is still telling you distance back to home plate, you've had no nav updates for the length of the sortie. You've got no radar, since you can't get out of standby to even access a boresight A/A lock on. You've got no ECM operative, although you can turn your RWR on. Okay, that's what I thought. Actually, I've been told on reasonably good authority that the Israelis occasionally flew A/G missions with only the front seat occupied, if they were short of bods. I imagine they'd try to restrict that to CAS, but can't say for sure. And at least in SVN, I don't believe having an operative radar (or ECM) was mission essential equipment for the CAS role -- between the radar stations and TACAN you could find your way to the FAC. Certainly that would be the case for the F-100 units, who lacked either capability in the first place. In any case, operable Radar/ECM doesn't seem seem to have been required for the Marines, and I hope Walt will chime in on what policy was for the 366th. It simply makes no sense. If you've got a mission critical enough that you've taken a system off the operational line and painted it black, why wouldn't you put a bod in the R/C/P. It isn't to minimize number of folks in the loop, because you've got a passle full of ground support troops to arm, fuel and launch the bird. As I said, I wasn't buying into JGG's fevered imagination, just wondering about your blanket comment that it was "impossible to fly a combat weapons delivery without a second crewman." Guy |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions List (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 40 | October 3rd 08 03:13 PM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | October 1st 04 02:31 PM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions List (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | September 2nd 04 05:15 AM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | June 2nd 04 07:17 AM |
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools | RT | Military Aviation | 104 | September 25th 03 03:17 PM |