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#1
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Inflight Emergency -- Definition
Thought I'd break this subject out of the Landout Laws thread. I have
no opinions to share on this topic, but would like to read yours as regards off airport landings during cross country flight. However, I suggest review the FARs and AIM for the FAA's definition of emergencies, pilot responsibilities, and emergency operations. Most of this is available online. Search Google for "Airman's Information Manual Emergency Operations." I'll look forward to your informed comments. This has the potential to be a very short thread! ;-) |
#2
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"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message om... Thought I'd break this subject out of the Landout Laws thread. I have no opinions to share on this topic, but would like to read yours as regards off airport landings during cross country flight. However, I suggest review the FARs and AIM for the FAA's definition of emergencies, pilot responsibilities, and emergency operations. Most of this is available online. Search Google for "Airman's Information Manual Emergency Operations." I'll look forward to your informed comments. This has the potential to be a very short thread! ;-) Might want to get a copy of the AIM and do a little reading. Here is an excerpt from Chapter 6: a. An emergency can be either a distress or urgency condition as defined in the Pilot/Controller Glossary. Pilots do not hesitate to declare an emergency when they are faced with distress conditions such as fire, mechanical failure, or structural damage. However, some are reluctant to report an urgency condition when they encounter situations which may not be immediately perilous, but are potentially catastrophic. An aircraft is in at least an urgency condition the moment the pilot becomes doubtful about position, fuel endurance, weather, or any other condition that could adversely affect flight safety. This is the time to ask for help, not after the situation has developed into a distress condition. b. Pilots who become apprehensive for their safety for any reason should request assistance immediately. Ready and willing help is available in the form of radio, radar, direction finding stations and other aircraft. Delay has caused accidents and cost lives. Safety is not a luxury! Take action! Ivan |
#3
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The section implies a requirement (tacit, at least) to communicate a
distress or urgency, since both these situations indicate an uncertain outcome. I've never heard a broadcast of mayday or pan, pan, pan prior to an out landing (though I don't listen to 121.5). Do sailplane pilots typcially declare an emergency before an outlanding? So many pilots indicated in the farmer relations thread that an outlanding is an emergency, I'm confused as to whether we should be declaring them. I can't recall an outlanding (I've had roughly 75) where I didn't have time to broadcast a pan, pan, pan. Of course, I never have. From time to time I call other pilots to inform them of an outlanding (mine or someone else's). But this has alway been a matter of convenience. I'm looking for some validation here from those convinced that an outlanding is an emergency. Do you truly treat it as an emergency in as much as the AIM and FARs detail emergency operations? Or is this an emergency of convenience, living in the gray of the regs so long as it suits the pilot's need to retrieve his glider? |
#4
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Here's a thought - how do you think the FAA would view a pilot who routinely
puts himself into a position in which he must delcare an emergency? A landout is not an emergency, in my view it is just a landing at a location other than an established airport. Ivan "Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message om... The section implies a requirement (tacit, at least) to communicate a distress or urgency, since both these situations indicate an uncertain outcome. I've never heard a broadcast of mayday or pan, pan, pan prior to an out landing (though I don't listen to 121.5). Do sailplane pilots typcially declare an emergency before an outlanding? So many pilots indicated in the farmer relations thread that an outlanding is an emergency, I'm confused as to whether we should be declaring them. I can't recall an outlanding (I've had roughly 75) where I didn't have time to broadcast a pan, pan, pan. Of course, I never have. From time to time I call other pilots to inform them of an outlanding (mine or someone else's). But this has alway been a matter of convenience. I'm looking for some validation here from those convinced that an outlanding is an emergency. Do you truly treat it as an emergency in as much as the AIM and FARs detail emergency operations? Or is this an emergency of convenience, living in the gray of the regs so long as it suits the pilot's need to retrieve his glider? |
#5
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Airman's info manual didn't have much to offer.
FARs have: 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general a.. Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes; b.. (a) ·Anywhere. ·An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface. §91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command. (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency. Those are the only things that seem remotely on point (in a quick check during lunch). Neither suggests any different treatment of ships w/onboard power vs. ships using external power (sailplanes). I wasn't able to find any info on what the landowners legal responsibilities are in the case of an emergency landing that is not also an accident investigation site. "Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message om... Thought I'd break this subject out of the Landout Laws thread. I have no opinions to share on this topic, but would like to read yours as regards off airport landings during cross country flight. However, I suggest review the FARs and AIM for the FAA's definition of emergencies, pilot responsibilities, and emergency operations. Most of this is available online. Search Google for "Airman's Information Manual Emergency Operations." I'll look forward to your informed comments. This has the potential to be a very short thread! ;-) |
#6
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At 16:48 01 March 2004, Todd Pattist wrote:
'Bert Willing' wrote: Under German law, this legal right is straightforward: But it is not so straightforward in the U.S. A pilot does not have the right to use and potentially damage the farmer's property unless he can claim necessity in order to avoid potentially more significant loss of life or injury to person or property. That risk to life and property is the basis for the right in the U.S. to make an outlanding. Todd Pattist - 'WH' Ventus C (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) This argument (thread) desperately needs the expertise of both an attorney to sort out the differences among FAA regulations, property law, and the difference between criminal and civil law, and also of a grammarian to sort out the syntax and bad punctuation, which distorts the ideas of the respondents. I'm neither, but I do see the failed communication on both sides. |
#7
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On 3/1/04 2:24 PM, in article ,
"Nyal Williams" wrote: This argument (thread) desperately needs the expertise of...and...a grammarian to sort out the syntax and bad punctuation, which distorts the ideas of the respondents. The parts you quoted indicate none of those failings, and in fact there was little contentiousness of any kind in them. Add "reading for meaning" to your list of our shortcomings. Jack ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
#8
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On 3/1/04 2:40 PM, in article , "Jack"
wrote: On 3/1/04 2:24 PM, in article , "Nyal Williams" wrote: This argument (thread) desperately needs the expertise of...and...a grammarian to sort out the syntax and bad punctuation, which distorts the ideas of the respondents. Add "reading for meaning" to your list of our shortcomings. Add also my inability to edit with clarity. Sorry. Jack ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
#9
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At 20:42 01 March 2004, Todd Pattist wrote:
Nyal Williams wrote: I'm neither, but I do see the failed communication on both sides. What do you think is not being communicated? I think I understand him, and as far as I can tell, he understood me. I didn't even think we disagreed. Todd Pattist - 'WH' Ventus C (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) This thread is 20 items long; I did not intend to quote any particular post, but answers back and forth seemed to me to misinterpret the critical point of the previous poster. My previous post was not prompted by the post to which it was attached; it was the whole shmear. |
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