Wow - heard on the air... (long)

Tom Young wrote:
I read somewhere recently (can't remember where now -- magazine article?)
that braking once off the ground with the wheels spinning can make the tires
slip around and possibly shear off the valve stems. Maybe that's an aviation
urban legend, but it seems like it would be an unpleasant little surprise
upon landing. I'd be curious to know if that's actually happened to anyone.


I can't remember ever stepping on the brakes after liftoff in anything other
than a retractible... and that's only if I remembered. As for your old wive's
tale about dire consequences, it's so much crap. Somebody was trying to scare
you.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Tom Young" wrote in message
...
[...]
I read somewhere recently (can't remember where now -- magazine article?)
that braking once off the ground with the wheels spinning can make the
tires slip around and possibly shear off the valve stems. Maybe that's an
aviation urban legend, but it seems like it would be an unpleasant little
surprise upon landing. I'd be curious to know if that's actually happened
to anyone.

If that were true, braking while on the ground would cause the same problem.
If anything, the difference between the inertial and friction forces are
much greater in that situation than braking after takeoff.

If it does concern you, apply the brakes gently. It shouldn't take much
force to stop the wheels anyway.

One thing to note: the vibration on a 172 (and similar issues on other
airplanes) isn't the same as noisy bearings (not that I know that's the
issue on the tailwheel that started this line of discussion...that was just
the assertion we started with ). The vibration is because the wheels
aren't balanced, a common problem with training airplanes, due to students
and their poor braking habits.

Pete

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote

...I can't remember ever stepping on the brakes after liftoff in anything
other than a retractible... and that's only if I remembered. As for your
old wive's tale about dire consequences, it's so much crap. Somebody was
trying to scare you.

No doubt, but you got me wondering where I saw it. Dug around a little:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182683-1.html

From that article:

: Myths for the Last Millenium
: "Hit the brakes after takeoff before you retract the gear." That's a bad
habit to acquire as the need for brakes is
: very much airplane-specific. There may be a certain, small number of
airplanes on which it is necessary as the
: spinning wheels caused some sort of mischief as they hit their wells.
Okay, the World War II Hawker Typhoon
: was one, but I can't come up with any others right this moment (and you're
probably not flying a Typhoon this
: week, are you?) There are more airplanes, particularly ones with fairly
massive landing gear, on which hitting the
: brakes slams the wheels to a stop and will rotate the tire on the rim,
potentially causing it to be unable to hold air
: pressure or actually cutting the valve stem. So, unless the airplane
flight manual says to hit the brakes, don't
: bother.

I imagine he wasn't thinking of a 172 when he wrote 'fairly massive landing
gear.'

--
Tom Young
37.7 toward PP-ASEL
t e y o u n g 1 @ c o m c a s t . n e t
(remove _this_ to reply)

Peter Duniho wrote

The vibration is because the wheels aren't balanced, a common problem with
training airplanes, due to students and their poor braking habits.

I guess we students reap what we sow :-)

--
Tom Young
37.7 toward PP-ASEL
t e y o u n g 1 @ c o m c a s t . n e t
(remove _this_ to reply)

"Tom Young" wrote in message
...
Peter Duniho wrote

The vibration is because the wheels aren't balanced, a common problem
with
training airplanes, due to students and their poor braking habits.

I guess we students reap what we sow :-)

It could also be that the aircraft was damaged while towing...


So, you reap what you tow. :~}

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:30:54 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

snip

A Cherokee Six can do 160 knots on the ILS if need be, and you will never hear
the controller asking you to "keep the speed up".

I often hear, "keep the speed up as long as praticable" prior to even
hiting the the approach, or pattern. Normally 140 is fast enough as
that is going to put you in the same category as a 737.

I was on the ILS for 28R (think it was 28) at Port Columbus doing a
practice instrument approach. The instructor told me to lift the
foggles and look out to the left. Straight off the wing tip was a 737
and as we had both intercepted well outside the outer marker we flew
like that for several miles. That is, until I put the gear down.
:-)) That brings me down to the normal 120 I typically fly.


One exception: I was flying back to Charlotte in a C-402 one morning with only
one brake. The controller keep after me to keep the speed up. As I got closer

Been there and done that, but I only had one engine. At least I
didn't have to fly an ILS.:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

and closer, I kept trying to slow down but the controller got onto me again.
Alrighty then....

I was cleared on very short final to land and "make the first turnoff ASAP".
Needless to say, I rolled past that turnoff at a manly rate of speed. USAirways
behind me had to go around. So sad, too bad. He shouldn't have rushed me.

And the Flight Service Specialist has to GUESS what transmitter to use
if there is more than one "twinkle" they have to choose from. The
correctr phraseology, so I've been taught, is: "McMinnville Radio,
Cessna 12345 on 122.45 out of Newberg." OR "McMinnville Radio, Cessna
12345 on 122.6 out of Salem." Remember that they may also have multiple
transmitters on 122.45 or 122.6 that they control, so the location is
just as important. Btw, Flight Watch is NOT Flight Service. Around
Salem, Oregon, Flight watch goes to Seattle Flight Watch, not
McMinnville, where Oregon's AFSS is located (for now).

Chris


Ron Natalie wrote:
Doug wrote:

One thing a LOT of pilots don't do right. When you call fligh****ch,
you should give your position on your initial callup. This is because
although it's all the same frequency, there are different transmitters.
If you don't give your position, he has to reply on ALL the
transmitters he has becuase he doesn't know WHERE YOU ARE!

I hear this mistake time and time again.

Have you been to a flight circus station in the last decade?
They know where you are because their console twinkles all the
receivers you hit.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:46:34 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

The vibration is because the wheels
aren't balanced, a common problem with training airplanes, due to students
and their poor braking habits.

That and squaring off the tires when landing.

When I was training, I too noticed the vibration when we took off. I
asked my CFI about it and he said "if you don't like it, just step on
the brakes." I did that from then on, whenever I encountered the
vibrating tires. Just takes a second.

I've read accounts of bush pilots who have huge oversize tires having
to screw the rims to the tire bead to prevent them from slipping on
the rims and cutting off the air nozzle. They have a lot more mass
behind them than the tires on a Cessna 172 though.

Corky Scott

Corky Scott wrote:

I've read accounts of bush pilots who have huge oversize tires having
to screw the rims to the tire bead to prevent them from slipping on
the rims and cutting off the air nozzle. They have a lot more mass
behind them than the tires on a Cessna 172 though.

That's because they run low tire pressures, not the size of the tire. You have
the same problem with off-road motorcycles.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.