Thielert (Diesel Engines)

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
...
There's nothing made up about "No sparks, no power" I wouldn't buy one
because of this. My club was looking at one ofr a Cherokee and decided
against it because of the lack of limp home capability.


Right.

MX has informed us of the risks associated with these electronic engine
management systems on several ocassions.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m wrote in
news:nrSdnQ8KTvrqRCnanZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@wideopenwest .com:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
...
There's nothing made up about "No sparks, no power" I wouldn't buy one
because of this. My club was looking at one ofr a Cherokee and decided
against it because of the lack of limp home capability.


Right.

MX has informed us of the risks associated with these electronic engine
management systems on several ocassions.


In particular regard to this installation? I have no problem with computer
governed engines, once tey aren't reliant on th ecomputer to run which
isn't the case with any other engine I know of.


Bertie

On Feb 15, 9:12*am, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
WingFlaps wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:11 am, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
WingFlaps wrote:
That apart, I'd like to dig a bit deeper into this reliability issue.
What percentage of Lycs or Cons mahe it to TBO without major part
replacements (such as cylinders, cylinder heads, magnetos etc.). Put
another way, is there anyone here who has _ever_ seen one go to TBO
without major working?
Cheers
Of course there are I've seen Lyc and Conts go WAY over TBO. Anyone that
* has spent much time around personally owned aircraft (Not Rental) has
seen the same.

Now I could be wrong, but I thought not making TBO implies a bad
failure? *So in my thinking, my question remains since an engine may
make TBO even though it has had major parts (such as a cylinder heads/
baarrels) replaced... If you know a few engines that have only ever
had plugs replaced in 2000 hours then that's great but I would still
like to know roughly what % that is. If you have the magazine you
refer to perhaps you could look up the relevant figure for me? Another
way of finding this out could be to look at how many cylinder heads
and barrels are sold compared to crankshaft service kits (if there is
such a thing). Even this would underestimate the true rate of engine
fails at annual as cylinders can be easily rehoned to raise
compression. Is 2000 hours is more of a myth than reality? Is there a
LAME here who could estimate how many plane engines he's had to strip
compared to ones he could just leave alone for 2000 hours?

Cheers

You keep moving the bar. YOu asked, "is there anyone here who has _ever_
seen one go to TBO without major working?" And the answer from myself
and others was yes, lots.

I' have know idea if the the percentage data you want is out there but


Well if you know the complete history of a 2000 hour engine that never
had anything but plugs replaced then as I said, that's great. But if
such anecdotal evidence is what you base reliability figures on then
I, personally, would not have much faith in them. That's my point. I
really don't have any axe to grind on engine type but am trying to be
objective -if that's OK with you? The heavy use Lycoming engines I
have seen all seem to be well down on compression by 1200 hours and
that is not a good look for them to reach 2000 -but I have only a
sample of about a dozen. Of course we'll ignore the complete recall of
cylinders that took place recently... So, is 2000 hours service
normal?

As for being stuck on the idea that one engine type is superior it's
not me as I'm only trying to glean _facts_ and don't I own anything -
what about you? Right now I am looking at the diesel STC for Cessnas
so this is not trivial but a near $1M question.

Cheers

On Feb 15, 1:44*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m wrote innews:nrSdnQ8KTvrqRCnanZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@wideopenwe st.com:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
...
There's nothing made up about "No sparks, no power" I wouldn't buy one
because of this. My club was looking at one ofr a Cherokee and decided
against it because of the lack of limp home capability.

Right.

MX has informed us of the risks associated with these electronic engine
management systems on several ocassions.

In particular regard to this installation? I have no problem with computer
governed engines, once tey aren't reliant on th ecomputer to run which
isn't the case with any other engine I know of.

I see your point and I think it's a good one. As I said before, I
smell the rat of marketing...

Cheers

WingFlaps,

I agree, there is no fundamental need for the FADEC in a diesel.


You need to let go of what you Americans consider to be a "diesel".
That's good for trucks and boats, but not for efficient small cars -
and airplanes.

We're talking modern, common-rail diesels which get their efficiency
and attractivity through complete electronic control.

FWIW, Thielert's two main developments (cost- and engineeringwise) are

1. the fuel pump (which has nothing to do with a gasoline pump), which
is self-lubricating with car diesel, but must be jet fuel compatible -
and jet fuel lubricates less well.

2. The FADEC, which, Bertie, has nothing to do with the car's engine
control, has dual redundancy and also proper electrical redundancy if
installed right (it wasn't in the DA-42, IMHO).

Thielert starts with a Mercedes car engine and exchanges 150 parts
before that engine becomes a Thielert.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Bertie,

It has the same modes plus that one.


Not true.

Let's just agree to disagree.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Bertie,

in this case,
when the gear was retracted...


While correct on the surface, there was much more to that accident.
Including the pilots blatantly acting against the POH.

Nice, eh?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Bertie,

There's lots of ways you can lose all electrics. Corrosion, lightning,
poor maintenance...
A manual reversion mode


There are lots of ways you can lose a manual connection, too.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Bertie,

Not the case
here. You can add backup batteries and what not, but they're still
connected to the same fadec.


There are two FADECs. Get yourself some factual information before
spouting your theories!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

WingFlaps,

As I said before, I
smell the rat of marketing...


As I said befo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)