Radio waves vs light waves

Everyone else has focused (!) on wavelength, but no one has mentioned
radiated power. Wavelength is to color as power is to brightness.
Anyone know how many watts a VOR transmitter radiates?
I would suspect is it no more than a few hundred, about equivalent to
a common outdoor floodlight. The energy of even the reflected sunlight
reaching your eye, Jay, was probably several orders of magnitude
more than the energy from the VOR.


Ross Oliver

"Jim" wrote in message
Ok, here's another weird one... if light is supposed to be made up of both
waves and particles, how much does it weigh?

It is my understanding that light is not "made" of waves or particles but
waves or particles can be used to describe their behavior depending on how
one wishes to observe them ("wave/particle duality", I think it's called).

Then again, if you observe the wave/particle, your observation changes the
outcome of the observation. This is called the "Ya Just Nevah Know" theory.

Weird stuff, that physics.

But here's another one that I got from a book a friend form here mailed to
me some time ago: You are inside a perfect sphere that has a mirror
surface. Your eyes are squarely (or is it"sperely") in the middle of the
sphere. What does the reflection look like?

--
Jim Fisher

But here's another one that I got from a book a friend form here mailed to
me some time ago: You are inside a perfect sphere that has a mirror
surface. Your eyes are squarely (or is it"sperely") in the middle of the
sphere. What does the reflection look like?


It looks like the sound of one hand clapping.

Mu

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Particles of light that do not make it through the window and which are not
reflected by the surface are absorbed into the structure. The excess energy
is then radiated away as heat.


Sort of.

They are absorbed, which means the (electromagnetic) energy is converted into
other kinds of energy in the structure, be it raising the orbitals of
electrons, wiggling the atoms around a bit, or accelerating it. The excess
energy is not really "excess" as there is no amount of energy a structure is
"permitted" to have. (not counting enough energy to blow it up. Molecular
motion IS heat. One of the ways energy is dissipated is the ratdiation of
photons (light, be it infra-red or otherwise), another is physical transfer of
momentum (the structure's atoms bounce against air molecules and make the air
molecules go faster). There are more.


The difference between a particle and a wave is the difference between
ripples on the water and the stone you threw in there.


No, the stone and the water are different things. But light, whether thought
of as waves or as particles, is the same thing. And if you think of light as a
particle, you are wrong. If you think of it as a wave, you are also wrong.
That's just the way the universe was put together - it's not my fault. g.


It is a fundamental axiom of physics that for very small particles
you can measure either the wave or the particle, but not both
simultaneously.


True enough.


The reason is there is nothing small enough to see both.


Never thought of it that way, but I don't think it's quite right. I thnk the
reason is more fundamental. "Stuff" is just made of something we don't
understand, and the ways we have though of so far are inadequate when put to
the test, though they make perfect sense in the macroscopic sense.


The light bulb does not create photons. It emits photons that are already
stored in the bulb.


The bulb too does create photons... photons that didn't exist before. It does
so by resisting the motion of electons, and therefore sucking some of their
energy into making the bulb hot, and this releases energy in the form of
photons.

Ok, so just what IS a photon?

Think of an electric field that points up and down, and keeps on switching
directions at some rate. Now think of a magnetic field that points left and
right, but switches directions at the same rate, just a bit out of phase. As
the electric field collapses it generates a magnetic field, and as the magnetic
field collapses it generates an electric field, and the two chase each other at
the speed of light. It's not a perfect description, but it's pretty close to
what a photon is.

It takes energy to make these fields wiggle like that, the energy comes from
the motion of electons in their orbitals. When things happen just right, the
electron collapses, exhausted, back into a lower orbital, and a spurt of energy
in the form of the wiggling Electric and Magnetic fields shoots out. A photon
has been emitted. That's where they come from.

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Jay Honeck wrote:

Okay, here's a weird one for the group: Radio waves are the same as light
waves, except they're not in the visible spectrum, right?

I've never heard of anyone frying their retinas by looking at a radio
transmitter, but this begs the question: Can the lens in your eye focus
radio waves?

If not, why not?


Ok, I'll try to keep it simple and free from techno babble:

1. I'm an electronics engineer for CBS television network, trust me.

2. Radio waves, micro waves, visible light, x-rays are all
"electromagnetic (EM) radiation". BUT...
as the frequency changes, the physical properties change. Thats one
reason they have
different names.

3. The lenses of your eyes DO NOT focus radio waves, micro waves, or
x-rays. Only
visible light and adjacent EM radiation like infra-red and
ultra-violet.

4. Low level radiation does not harm your eyes. But if you get close
enough to a live, high power
radio transmitter, the radio waves CAN cause damage. Like the flame
from an arc-welder.
If you look at an arc-welding flame from 1,000 ft away, no
problem. If you look at
an arc welding flame from 2 feet away (no protection) you get
fitted for a white cane.
Just stay a few feet away from any HIGH POWER radio transmitter and
there is
no health problem. Low level transmitters like cell phones do not
cause medical problems,
only internet rumors.

5. Consider the following examples of how different forms of EM
radiation have different
physical properties:

-Soda Glass will totally block ultra-violet light while passing
radio waves, microwaves,
visible light, and x-rays.

-A sheet of black paper will block visible light, but pass radio
waves, microwaves, and
x-rays.

-A glass of water will partially block radio waves, totally block
microwaves, partially block
light waves, and pass x-rays.

-A sheet of aluminum foil will totally block radio waves,
microwaves, light waves, but
pass x-rays. (nothing but a couple tons of lead totally blocks
x-rays)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
When things happen just right, the
electron collapses, exhausted, back into a lower orbital, and a spurt of
energy
in the form of the wiggling Electric and Magnetic fields shoots out. A
photon
has been emitted. That's where they come from.

Pretty cool description, Teach. Heck, my Alabama brain can almost grasp
that concept.

Unfortunately, when it comes to physics the more I think I grasp, the less I
actually grasp. This is called the Aintcertainty Principal.

--
Jim Fisher

In article ,
"Jim Fisher" wrote:

Then again, if you observe the wave/particle, your observation changes the
outcome of the observation. This is called the "Ya Just Nevah Know" theory.

Also known as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Computer bugs that only happen when you disable your debugging tools are
therefore known as "Heisenbugs."


Scrawled on a toilet stall at Caltech sometime in the early '80s:

"Heisenberg sat here yesterday."

Then, in different handwriting immediately below:

"Pauli was here at the same time."


I'll explain it anyone wants, but Teacherjh seems to be doing a better
job with explaining this stuff that I probably could.

You kept it out of technobabble, but you kept it far from the truth.

Would you mind not stepping into an argument where you have not a clue as to the
answer?

Jim

Buff5200
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-
-Ok, I'll try to keep it simple and free from techno babble:


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

"Ross Oliver" wrote in message
...

Everyone else has focused (!) on wavelength, but no one has mentioned
radiated power.

That's because the question was "does my lens focus the radio waves", not
"is my retina being cooked".

Duh.

Jim Weir wrote in message . ..
You kept it out of technobabble, but you kept it far from the truth.

So how about explaining what was untruthful, rather than offering a
drive-by shooting critique. I read these posts to get smarter not as
a forum for putdowns.