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#11
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On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:55:44 -0600, "Quantum Foam Guy"
wrote: "Oelewapper" wrote in message ... Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... : This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks dealing with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is "fascism". Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals. --==++AJC++==-- |
#12
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On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:57:38 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:
In article , "nobody760" wrote: So the message is visiting the USA is more trouble than its worth so I'll go some place else. Yeah, that two minute fingerprinting and photo is *sooo* hard after a six-hour plane flight... ...and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs checks in 99% of the countries in the world. You don't get out very much do you? --==++AJC++==-- |
#13
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"Chad Irby" skrev i meddelandet . com... In article , "nobody760" wrote: So the message is visiting the USA is more trouble than its worth so I'll go some place else. Yeah, that two minute fingerprinting and photo is *sooo* hard after a six-hour plane flight... ...and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs checks in 99% of the countries in the world. 99% ? Interesting. I transferred recently in 6 minutes from International to domestic including security check. Was in Sandefjord Norway. How many transfers international-domestic are done in less 6 minutes in U.S ? |
#14
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"Lennart Petersen" schreef in bericht ... 99% ? Interesting. I transferred recently in 6 minutes from International to domestic including security check. Was in Sandefjord Norway. How many transfers international-domestic are done in less 6 minutes in U.S In the last two weeks I entered: Hong Kong wait at immigration about 2 minutes Vietnam wait at immigration about 1 minute Thailand wait at immigration about 3 minutes Malaysia wait at immigration about 10 minutes Vietnam wait at immigration about 10 minutes Hong Kong wait at immigration about 1 minute Mongolia got a visa on arrival which had to be processed wait at immigration about 25 minutes China wait at immigration about 5 minutes My trips to the US wait at immigration has never been less than 10 minutes and several times an hour or more. Sjoerd |
#15
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Quantum Foam Guy wrote:
Oelewapper wrote: Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... : This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks dealing with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is "fascism". I do consider it fascism. I also have never had my fingerprints taken for a driver's license in the US. When you lace your writing with such stupid hyperbole, you've lost your credibility. If you can't see creeping totalitarianism, then you must be part of the problem. You're also mistaken if you think this will be limited to the US. Wealthy democracies will all be implementing these very same procedures. If you doubt me, wait and see what happens after the next round of terrorist attacks. Not so. Just look at Europe with is about to go to court to prevent airlines from passing passenger information to the US TSA as a violation of European privacy laws. They seem to take privacy much more seriously than the US, even though there have been many more terrorist attacks in their home countries. They don't see the need to give up their rights like the supposedly "free" USA to tackle terrorism. |
#16
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"AJC" wrote in message ... Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals. So how can we identify a person other than fingerprints? Passports, DLs, and every other form of ID have been no problem to duplicate for terrorists. |
#17
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...and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs
checks in 99% of the countries in the world. When I arrive at JFK, I often wait 10-30 minutes in line, and I am a USA citizen. The other lines are worse, and this is without the finger- printing and photographing. I contrast that to countries like Finland, Sweden, Austria, and Switzerland, where I breeze by passport control hardly slowing down. I am sure this is the same for Denmark, Norway, Iceland, and many other European countries. Your 99% must exclude Europe, right? Pete |
#18
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In article ,
"Brian" writes: "AJC" wrote in message ... Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals. So how can we identify a person other than fingerprints? Passports, DLs, and every other form of ID have been no problem to duplicate for terrorists. Fingerprints aren't reliable, either. It seems that a number of agents of the former Iraqi regime, and Al-Queda agents as well, have been found travelling under Kuwaiti papers, with the appropriate fingerprints on file. It seems that when Iraq took Kuwait in 1990, Saddam's intel folks took the opportunity to plant some sleeper IDs, and they've been renting them out. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
#19
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On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:46:54 GMT, James Robinson
wrote: Quantum Foam Guy wrote: Oelewapper wrote: Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... : This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks dealing with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is "fascism". I do consider it fascism. I also have never had my fingerprints taken for a driver's license in the US. When you lace your writing with such stupid hyperbole, you've lost your credibility. If you can't see creeping totalitarianism, then you must be part of the problem. You're also mistaken if you think this will be limited to the US. Wealthy democracies will all be implementing these very same procedures. If you doubt me, wait and see what happens after the next round of terrorist attacks. Not so. Just look at Europe with is about to go to court to prevent airlines from passing passenger information to the US TSA as a violation of European privacy laws. They seem to take privacy much more seriously than the US, even though there have been many more terrorist attacks in their home countries. They don't see the need to give up their rights like the supposedly "free" USA to tackle terrorism. Exactly. The UK, Spain and other democracies have lived with terrorism for many years. It is not always easy but it is important to keep a balance between security and liberty. If you end up turning a country in to a police state out of fear of terrorism, then the terrorists have won. --==++AJC++==-- |
#20
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On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:08:54 GMT, "Pete"
wrote: ...and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs checks in 99% of the countries in the world. When I arrive at JFK, I often wait 10-30 minutes in line, and I am a USA citizen. The other lines are worse, and this is without the finger- printing and photographing. I contrast that to countries like Finland, Sweden, Austria, and Switzerland, where I breeze by passport control hardly slowing down. I am sure this is the same for Denmark, Norway, Iceland, and many other European countries. Your 99% must exclude Europe, right? His 99% would exclude much of Asia as well. I would imagine it was the first number that came in to his head rather than based on any actual experience. --==++AJC++==-- |
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