Looking for non-biased resource

Ed,

Yup, good points all. I learned to fly at HOU years ago and know the area well.
I've lived in Silicon Valley for a number years now.

GA begins to shine when you need to go off the beaten path. It's always going
to be more expensive, but it might be worth it in your situation.

A friend of mine operates a Cessna 421, a pressurized cabin class piston twin.
You could get into a good one for about $350K and he figures his operating
costs around $350/hr or so. Of course, it isn't as fast as a jet, but it
cruises in the flight levels, over some of the weather and it has a john. But a
trip from IWS to Sacramento would still take about 7-8 hours or so.


You're correct that IAH and HOU both have a lot of operations. The
assumption that large companies are in large cities is incorrect. Try to
get a flight into Chapel Hill, NC. You have to go to Raleigh via Charlotte.
How about Tyco Electronics in Harrisburg, PA via CLE. Intel in Folsom takes
a flight to SFO then Sacramento but we usually drive a rental from SFO
BRBR

--
Dr. Nuketopia
Sorry, no e-Mail.
Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


zatatime wrote:

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:22:13 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

Contractors would be completely unsuitable for
this in all the cases with which I am familiar.

I've seen it done, and worked on proprietary projects. You have to
sign a bunch of forms saying you won't steal the technology or compete
with them for 6 to 12 months, but most of it just re-enforces what
should be good ethical procedures anyway.

For the systems on which I used to work, no contractor could do it without
several days to several weeks of extensive training at corporate
facilities.
That alone makes contracting with remotely based people for one-shot jobs
completely unsuitable. In some cases with which I'm familiar, a security
clearance is also required, but I would guess that isn't the case here.

George Patterson

Who said anything about "one shot jobs". They are going to the coasts
frequently to do installations.

Mike
MU-2

I have a friend who bought a CJ2 last month for about 5.3MM. The $350K/yr
is just assuming an interest cost a little below 7% it does not consider
ammortization of the loan. The RVSM comment was based on the notion that
the new jets all have RVSM or can have it added fairly easily since they
already have digital airdata. BTW getting RVSM on some older jets is not
trivial because the skins are not straight enough.. If you are buying a
$1MM airplane, $100K for RVSM is not trivial.


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
A bare bones jet like a CJ-2 will cost about $1200/hr to operate if you
have
high utilization. Interest cost on the purchase will be about $350K/yr.
If
you fly 400hrs/yr it will cost $830K/yr.

Could you show some details for those numbers? I don't know about theCJ-2,
but I do know some people who oeprate a 2001 CJ-1 and those numbers are
not
even close on the interest cost.

particulary if you are going to the NE or NW. Without RVSM, none of the
older jets will be able to make the westbound legs without stopping..

Pardon? Just about any jet now is going to have to be certified for RVSM
to
use an altitude over FL290. The cost, relative to the cost of the
aircraft,
is "minimal" for equipment and training.

I have never heard of a company flyings technicians around in a private
jet
to install software. It sounds ridiculous. Can't you find a contractor
to
install the software?

That does sound bizarre, but I'd guess he's not talking about installing
Windows XP on some secretaries workstation. Now, if it's nusual software
on
a highly secure system and environment, maybe so, but in any case, they'd
be
more likely to jsut use the airlines.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

nobody wrote:


I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have enough
miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not aware
that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class. The
clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I would
expect the same level of discretion from my team.


When your teams are flying first class on coach fares, they are
providing coach ticket receipts for reimbursement. I assume the client
audits them or wants to see them.

what receipts will they present when they fly on a corporate jet?

No, not really. The expenses come in as a line item on the invoice for the
installation and training, not as expense items to each member of the team.
Our admin dept. audits the expense reports from the teams. We charge
1,500.00 per day per person plus reasonable expenses.


"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
nobody wrote:


I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have
enough
miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not
aware
that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class.
The
clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I
would
expect the same level of discretion from my team.


When your teams are flying first class on coach fares, they are
providing coach ticket receipts for reimbursement. I assume the client
audits them or wants to see them.

what receipts will they present when they fly on a corporate jet?

On 13-Dec-2004, "nobody" wrote:

Exactly! Key personnel and scheduling. Bottom line is "can we afford
it?", not "is it cheaper?"


Not exactly my point. A company might be able to "afford" to own its own
plane, but not be able to justify it. In reality, "the bottom line" is, in
fact, the bottom line. In other words, if using business aviation, whether
charter, fractional ownership, or dedicated operation, results in improved
profits and/or business operation, then go for it.

--
-Elliott Drucker

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.

nobody wrote:

No, not really. The expenses come in as a line item on the invoice for the
installation and training, not as expense items to each member of the team.
Our admin dept. audits the expense reports from the teams. We charge
1,500.00 per day per person plus reasonable expenses.


"xyzzy" wrote in message
...

nobody wrote:


I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have

enough

miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not

aware

that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class.

The

clients certainly haven't complained. If we went to private jet, I

would

expect the same level of discretion from my team.


When your teams are flying first class on coach fares, they are
providing coach ticket receipts for reimbursement. I assume the client
audits them or wants to see them.

what receipts will they present when they fly on a corporate jet?

Mike Rapoport wrote:

I have a friend who bought a CJ2 last month for about 5.3MM. The $350K/yr
is just assuming an interest cost a little below 7% it does not consider
ammortization of the loan. The RVSM comment was based on the notion that
the new jets all have RVSM or can have it added fairly easily since they
already have digital airdata. BTW getting RVSM on some older jets is not
trivial because the skins are not straight enough.. If you are buying a
$1MM airplane, $100K for RVSM is not trivial.

What does skin straightness have to do with it? It isn't obvious and I
couldn't find anything with a web search.


Matt

Mike Rapoport wrote:

Who said anything about "one shot jobs". They are going to the coasts
frequently to do installations.

The suggestion made was to avoid travel by farming the installation out to local
contractors. That makes it a series of "one shot jobs".

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

xyzzy wrote:

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.

Trust has nothing to do with it. The expenses are part of the cost of the
product. If the company doesn't want to pay it, they don't buy the software.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.