US Competition Pilot Poll and Election

Yes John.

50% assigned tasks in FAI

3% (modified US variable distance) pseudo assigned tasks in the US.

I could care less about the scoring. That is relative.

US rules pervert a racing sport into not racing.

FAI still respects racing.

I want FAI, and to end the failed, unjustified (measured, objective value) US rules experiment. The only success Us rules can claim is the total destruction of any actual racing in the USA (and Canada it seems).

Sean

Ladies and Gentelmen,

I have enjoyed all the conversation on this subject over the last few weeks.. As I sit in the #1 Irish bar in Houston Texas I feel that there is a very simple answer to everyone's dilemma. For all those folks that want racing tasks, be the CD. Maybe the better answer is to gradually get away from exclusive TAT contests. I was fortunate to CD the Region 5 South contest 3 years in a row. I liked calling AT's as Task A if the weather supported it. In the last 2 years I landed out almost everyone due to unusual weather during the day. We have numerous safe landout opportunities and private airports so there were no damages to any ships. It is the south so we had numerous volunteers to go get those who landed out.

If I was calling a task in more difficult terrain I would be more cautious and probably call a TAT. Unless the task area had enough turn points in the area of the airport, I would never call a MAT. Even a long MAT. See me and I'll give you my take on that type of task.

I have the greatest respect for all pilots in this thread. I'm a newby in racing but I don't do too bad. As a retired fighter pilot, I have sent pilots into combat off aircraft carriers. But as a CD I can tell you, when I sent my fellow pilots on task I worried about them just as much. Not that they couldn't make it back but if they landed out and got hurt it was on me. The Canadians fly under the same rules as us. I count XG and F1 as very good friends. They don't do too bad in the Worlds and as Sean pointed out, their last National had 100% TAT's.

If I was on the Race Committee, I would ask our pilots at the more competitive events what their desires are. Then ask some of our more vocal pilots to give up flying a contest and CD an event or at least be the task advisor. The vast majority of us do this for fun and the challenge. These goals are not mutually exclusive. Have a good night....stay hi, fly fast and come home.

Rich Owen
ZO, EA, 1K, KJ
PS - I have a motor in 2 out of 4 of these gliders

Wow, not having time to read even half of everything I have to comment on few of them:

1. In FAI rules there is no binding rule for speed task / area task relation. The wording is "SHOULD" and this makes the rule totally unnecessary (IMHO). In last WGC there was 3 mass landout days because organizers read this rule as "MUST". I reminded stewards about this, and they reminded organizers, lo and behold, we got area tasks after that without mass landouts.

2. I have yet to witness advantage taken from landing out just short of airport, in real world situation, this is very academic. Yes the advantage of coming home when everyone lands out close by can be close to zero.

3. I have never flown altitude restricted starts (flatland pilot, obviously). There is speed restriction for preventing dives, I think. 99% of competitions you have normal start line, you cross it and start racing, without any manouvres.

4. Landing out after finish ring is possible because the concept of finish ring and minimum altitude are (after so many years) still very poorly understood. Minimum AND maximum radius, plus corresponding minimum altitudes should be written into FAI rules to prevent this stupidness.

5. Dedicated weather person, hah... Flarm radar network though, yes even I have entertained that idea. But what if you select "no tracking" option in your flarm?

At some point, nearly every sport ends up ruined and facing extinction or major reform because of "gamesmen". What are "gamesmen"? Gamesmen are those who, if they can't win through superior performance, will figure out how to exploit the rules to win, spirit of the game be damned.

The soaring world certainly has it's share of gamesmen. Example: Landing out an entire national team to devalue the day to keep the better pilots from winning.

My position is that the rules should preserve the spirit of the sport and discourage the gamesmen.


Wallace Berry (Not hiding behind a pseudonym, not hiding behind "safety", not a gamesman.)

Not a racer, but a somewhat interested reader.

Can't a CD fly in the race? If not, why not? And if he can, then why
doesn't he?

On 10/28/2016 12:18 AM, Rich Owen wrote:
Ladies and Gentelmen,

I have enjoyed all the conversation on this subject over the last few weeks. As I sit in the #1 Irish bar in Houston Texas I feel that there is a very simple answer to everyone's dilemma. For all those folks that want racing tasks, be the CD. Maybe the better answer is to gradually get away from exclusive TAT contests. I was fortunate to CD the Region 5 South contest 3 years in a row. I liked calling AT's as Task A if the weather supported it. In the last 2 years I landed out almost everyone due to unusual weather during the day. We have numerous safe landout opportunities and private airports so there were no damages to any ships. It is the south so we had numerous volunteers to go get those who landed out.

If I was calling a task in more difficult terrain I would be more cautious and probably call a TAT. Unless the task area had enough turn points in the area of the airport, I would never call a MAT. Even a long MAT. See me and I'll give you my take on that type of task.

I have the greatest respect for all pilots in this thread. I'm a newby in racing but I don't do too bad. As a retired fighter pilot, I have sent pilots into combat off aircraft carriers. But as a CD I can tell you, when I sent my fellow pilots on task I worried about them just as much. Not that they couldn't make it back but if they landed out and got hurt it was on me. The Canadians fly under the same rules as us. I count XG and F1 as very good friends. They don't do too bad in the Worlds and as Sean pointed out, their last National had 100% TAT's.

If I was on the Race Committee, I would ask our pilots at the more competitive events what their desires are. Then ask some of our more vocal pilots to give up flying a contest and CD an event or at least be the task advisor. The vast majority of us do this for fun and the challenge. These goals are not mutually exclusive. Have a good night....stay hi, fly fast and come home.

Rich Owen
ZO, EA, 1K, KJ
PS - I have a motor in 2 out of 4 of these gliders

--
Dan, 5J

On Friday, 28 October 2016 10:39:33 UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not a racer, but a somewhat interested reader.

Can't a CD fly in the race? If not, why not? And if he can, then why
doesn't he?

On 10/28/2016 12:18 AM, Rich Owen wrote:
Ladies and Gentelmen,

I have enjoyed all the conversation on this subject over the last few weeks. As I sit in the #1 Irish bar in Houston Texas I feel that there is a very simple answer to everyone's dilemma. For all those folks that want racing tasks, be the CD. Maybe the better answer is to gradually get away from exclusive TAT contests. I was fortunate to CD the Region 5 South contest 3 years in a row. I liked calling AT's as Task A if the weather supported it. In the last 2 years I landed out almost everyone due to unusual weather during the day. We have numerous safe landout opportunities and private airports so there were no damages to any ships. It is the south so we had numerous volunteers to go get those who landed out.

If I was calling a task in more difficult terrain I would be more cautious and probably call a TAT. Unless the task area had enough turn points in the area of the airport, I would never call a MAT. Even a long MAT. See me and I'll give you my take on that type of task.

I have the greatest respect for all pilots in this thread. I'm a newby in racing but I don't do too bad. As a retired fighter pilot, I have sent pilots into combat off aircraft carriers. But as a CD I can tell you, when I sent my fellow pilots on task I worried about them just as much. Not that they couldn't make it back but if they landed out and got hurt it was on me.. The Canadians fly under the same rules as us. I count XG and F1 as very good friends. They don't do too bad in the Worlds and as Sean pointed out, their last National had 100% TAT's.

If I was on the Race Committee, I would ask our pilots at the more competitive events what their desires are. Then ask some of our more vocal pilots to give up flying a contest and CD an event or at least be the task advisor. The vast majority of us do this for fun and the challenge. These goals are not mutually exclusive. Have a good night....stay hi, fly fast and come home.

Rich Owen
ZO, EA, 1K, KJ
PS - I have a motor in 2 out of 4 of these gliders

--
Dan, 5J

From the 2016 SSA FAI Nationals Rulebook

3.1.3 Competition Director
3.1.3.1 The Competition Director (hereinafter referred to as the CD) shall be an experienced competition official nominated by the sponsor at least 60 days before the contest and approved by the SSA Contest Committee. The CD works for the Contest Manager, but is responsible to the SSA for insuring compliance with these rules and fair competition.
3.1.3.2 The CD supervises the Contest Competition Committee, task selection, flight documentation procedures and analysis, start and finish procedures and scoring.
3.1.3.3 The CD must not be an entrant in any competition over which that CD has authority.

In pretty much ANY " competition" there will be those that either exploit "loopholes" or find a way to "cheat".

Enough said.

Any governing body, "shall review rules based on intent and what others may come up with" to either clarify the rules/intent or to close loopholes.
I ran (as a competitor) a lot of SCCA events in the US, their "catch all" phrase was, "unless allowed, consider it outside the rule intent"!

To some of this, and other discussions on RAS, peeps are splitting hairs.

A US contest site can pick basic rules as they see fit.
You don't like them, don't go.
You want to tweak them, then speak up.

I will hazard a guess that multiple peeps on RAS (with the SSA as a governing body....) will ask that they change wording on their website for "contest results" to change wording to remove racing.
You want "racing", go to an event Sean and/or Wilbur support.

So, you don't like contest flying in the US, then volunteer like others and run it like you see fit as a CD.
I've been a CD (granted, HHSC Snowbird event, for more than 1 year, not points paying, GTG at the end of the season..).

I have also helped at contests in the NE as sniffer/advisor.

As Ron mentions, it's in the rules. But why? The CD has the potential to influence the outcome of a contest in his/her favor if he/she is competing.. Here's a classic example. The CD is in first place by a small margin going into the last day. It's a weakish day, so the sort where places can shift significantly. The CD ultimately has the call as to whether to go out on task. If he/she cancels the day, the folks in contention (2nd, 3rd, etc.) will obviously have a gripe that the day was cancelled just to protect the lead.

Also, having tried flying tasks while also CDing, I'll say that as a practical matter, it's not easy. On many days, there's a lot going on in the hour or so between launch and gate opening. Checking with advisors. Keeping track of gate opening times. Checking weather radar, METARs, etc. if you are on the edge of a system. I've done it from the cockpit a couple of times, and that was admittedly a mistake. So instead you have to wait on the ground until the last task is opened, then launch and try to catch up. Not gonna work, especially on a weak day where you need the start gaggles.

P3

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 9:14:18 PM UTC+3, Papa3 wrote:
As Ron mentions, it's in the rules. But why? The CD has the potential to influence the outcome of a contest in his/her favor if he/she is competing. Here's a classic example. The CD is in first place by a small margin going into the last day. It's a weakish day, so the sort where places can shift significantly. The CD ultimately has the call as to whether to go out on task. If he/she cancels the day, the folks in contention (2nd, 3rd, etc.) will obviously have a gripe that the day was cancelled just to protect the lead.

Also, having tried flying tasks while also CDing, I'll say that as a practical matter, it's not easy. On many days, there's a lot going on in the hour or so between launch and gate opening. Checking with advisors. Keeping track of gate opening times. Checking weather radar, METARs, etc. if you are on the edge of a system. I've done it from the cockpit a couple of times, and that was admittedly a mistake. So instead you have to wait on the ground until the last task is opened, then launch and try to catch up. Not gonna work, especially on a weak day where you need the start gaggles.

I was in a PW5 regionals (come to think of it, may have been the nationals) where the CD took off in his LS7 (I think .. std class anyway) and flew the task. Of course he always landed before any of us...

I was downloading the flight logs and doing the scoring, once I got back from the tasks and had dinner.